During their years

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sameerballani: Legendary Member; Posts: 544; Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 8:10 amFollowed by: 2 members; Thanked: 45 times

by sameerballani » Fri Jun 17, 2011 4:30 am

During their years on the frontier, they had numerous pitched battles against Lipans, Kickapoos, Kiowas, Comanches - and their most determined foe, the Apaches, including ferocious encounters with the great war chief Victorio, possibly the most skillful enemy in frontier history.

A. the Apaches, including ferocious encounters with the great war chief Victorio, possibly the most skillful enemy in frontier history.

B. the Apaches, including ferocious encounters with the great war chief Victorio, the possibly most skillful enemy in frontier history.

C. the Apaches, including ferocious encounters with the great war chief Victorio, the most skillful enemy, possibly, in frontier history.

D. the Apaches, including ferocious encounters with the great war chief Victorio, possibly a most skillful enemy in frontier history.

E. the Apaches, including ferocious encounters with the great war chief Victorio, possibly the more skillful enemy in frontier history.

[spoiler]OA:Later[/spoiler]
Please discuss.

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Source: Beat The GMAT — Sentence Correction | Fri Jun 17, 2011 4:30 am

abhishek.pati: Senior | Next Rank: 100 Posts; Posts: 83; Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 11:27 am; Thanked: 1 times

by abhishek.pati » Fri Jun 17, 2011 4:36 am

During their years on the frontier, they had numerous pitched battles against Lipans, Kickapoos, Kiowas, Comanches - and their most determined foe, the Apaches, including ferocious encounters with the great war chief Victorio, possibly the most skillful enemy in frontier history.

A. the Apaches, including ferocious encounters with the great war chief Victorio, possibly the most skillful enemy in frontier history. correct

B. the Apaches, including ferocious encounters with the great war chief Victorio, the possibly most skillful enemy in frontier history. wrong usage

C. the Apaches, including ferocious encounters with the great war chief Victorio, the most skillful enemy, possibly, in frontier history. wrong usage , makes no sense.

D. the Apaches, including ferocious encounters with the great war chief Victorio, possibly a most skillful enemy in frontier history. wrong usage

E. the Apaches, including ferocious encounters with the great war chief Victorio, possibly the more skillful enemy in frontier history. wrong usage.

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HSPA: Legendary Member; Posts: 1101; Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 7:26 amFollowed by: 13 members; Thanked: 47 times; GMAT Score:640

by HSPA » Fri Jun 17, 2011 5:28 am

I found this question is testing our knowledge on articles.

Please use 'the' infront of suprelative or unique entities.

Some guys fought many battles even with X who is the most fierce of all.

+1 for abhishek

First take: 640 (50M, 27V) - RC needs 300% improvement
Second take: coming soon..
Regards,
HSPA.

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divya23: Master | Next Rank: 500 Posts; Posts: 113; Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 8:58 amFollowed by: 14 members; Thanked: 2 times

by divya23 » Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:01 am

imo a

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VivianKerr: GMAT Instructor; Posts: 1035; Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2010 11:13 amFollowed by: 365 members; Location: Los Angeles, CA; Thanked: 474 times

by VivianKerr » Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:15 am

IMO: A

You would never said "the possibly".

We also use the article "the" before "more" and "most."

Since it's talking about one enemy compared to ALL other enemies, we would use the superlative.

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atulmangal: Legendary Member; Posts: 1112; Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 11:16 amFollowed by: 49 members; Thanked: 77 times

by atulmangal » Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:31 am

Hi Vivian,

I agree with the OA but can you please help me understand the structure of this sentence.

Op A

During their years on the frontier, they had numerous pitched battles against Lipans, Kickapoos, Kiowas, Comanches - and their most determined foe, the Apaches, including ferocious encounters with the great war chief Victorio, possibly the most skillful enemy in frontier history.

Here my confusion is, if the battle is against these four elements only "Lipans, Kickapoos, Kiowas, Comanches" then i believe AND is necessary between the final two elements (Kiowas AND Comanches) here which is missing.

on the other hand, if the battle is between five elements "Lipans, Kickapoos, Kiowas, Comanches - and their most determined foe" then what is the meaning of (- AND)..i'm not able to understand this combination of (hyphen AND)

Please explain!!!

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Frankenstein: Legendary Member; Posts: 1448; Joined: Tue May 17, 2011 9:55 amFollowed by: 53 members; Location: India; Thanked: 375 times

by Frankenstein » Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:46 am

Hi,
I believe that is a 'dash' and not hyphen. There is a difference between hyphen and dash.
dashes may also be used as a substitute for commas to set off a modifier that NAMES people or things, especially if there is a LIST of such people/things.

So, I think the usage of 'dash' here is as a substitute for comma. But, I don't think we need to worry too much about this usage. Anyway, if you want to know about it, you can refer to Ron's post:
https://www.manhattangmat.com/forums/post38846.html

Cheers!

Things are not what they appear to be... nor are they otherwise

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atulmangal: Legendary Member; Posts: 1112; Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 11:16 amFollowed by: 49 members; Thanked: 77 times

by atulmangal » Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:52 am

Frankenstein wrote:Hi,
I believe that is a 'dash' and not hyphen. There is a difference between hyphen and dash.
dashes may also be used as a substitute for commas to set off a modifier that NAMES people or things, especially if there is a LIST of such people/things.

So, I think the usage of 'dash' here is as a substitute for comma. But, I don't think we need to worry too much about this usage. Anyway, if you want to know about it, you can refer to Ron's post:
https://www.manhattangmat.com/forums/post38846.html

Hi, actually i rarely saw any hyphen used in SC question so far, most of the time i encountered DASH only and even for this question i initially thought it was DASH but DASH is slightly longer in size, second so far what i know about DASH is,

1) Part between two DASH is modifier
2) DASH MODIFIER COMMA

in this question, in Op A, the construction is same a second one which means AND etc etc is a modifier...that means the sentence will become structurally wrong....my doubt was is the structure of the sentence is correct or not?????

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Frankenstein: Legendary Member; Posts: 1448; Joined: Tue May 17, 2011 9:55 amFollowed by: 53 members; Location: India; Thanked: 375 times

by Frankenstein » Fri Jun 17, 2011 10:10 am

atulmangal wrote:
Frankenstein wrote:Hi,
I believe that is a 'dash' and not hyphen. There is a difference between hyphen and dash.
dashes may also be used as a substitute for commas to set off a modifier that NAMES people or things, especially if there is a LIST of such people/things.

So, I think the usage of 'dash' here is as a substitute for comma. But, I don't think we need to worry too much about this usage. Anyway, if you want to know about it, you can refer to Ron's post:
https://www.manhattangmat.com/forums/post38846.html
Hi, actually i rarely saw any hyphen used in SC question so far, most of the time i encountered DASH only and even for this question i initially thought it was DASH but DASH is slightly longer in size, second so far what i know about DASH is,

1) Part between two DASH is modifier
2) DASH MODIFIER COMMA

in this question, in Op A, the construction is same a second one which means AND etc etc is a modifier...that means the sentence will become structurally wrong....my doubt was is the structure of the sentence is correct or not?????

Hi,
I understand your point. hyphen is only used in compound words, to make the whole bunch mean as a single word.
Coming to dash, in this case :
IMO, It is used here as a substitute of comma only because adding one more comma to the already plenty commas in the same sentence makes this sentence very awkward and ambiguous too. So, the meaning of the sentence as as you interpreted in the second like five elements.

Cheers!

Things are not what they appear to be... nor are they otherwise

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atulmangal: Legendary Member; Posts: 1112; Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 11:16 amFollowed by: 49 members; Thanked: 77 times

by atulmangal » Fri Jun 17, 2011 6:09 pm

Frankenstein wrote:
atulmangal wrote:
Frankenstein wrote:Hi,
I believe that is a 'dash' and not hyphen. There is a difference between hyphen and dash.
dashes may also be used as a substitute for commas to set off a modifier that NAMES people or things, especially if there is a LIST of such people/things.

So, I think the usage of 'dash' here is as a substitute for comma. But, I don't think we need to worry too much about this usage. Anyway, if you want to know about it, you can refer to Ron's post:
https://www.manhattangmat.com/forums/post38846.html
Hi, actually i rarely saw any hyphen used in SC question so far, most of the time i encountered DASH only and even for this question i initially thought it was DASH but DASH is slightly longer in size, second so far what i know about DASH is,

1) Part between two DASH is modifier
2) DASH MODIFIER COMMA

in this question, in Op A, the construction is same a second one which means AND etc etc is a modifier...that means the sentence will become structurally wrong....my doubt was is the structure of the sentence is correct or not?????
Hi,
I understand your point. hyphen is only used in compound words, to make the whole bunch mean as a single word.
Coming to dash, in this case :
IMO, It is used here as a substitute of comma only because adding one more comma to the already plenty commas in the same sentence makes this sentence very awkward and ambiguous too. So, the meaning of the sentence as as you interpreted in the second like five elements.

ohh!!! i looked again and now i got the structure plus your point. My understanding is, here DASH is actually acting as a comma only as u said and the structure is same as

A, B, C, D, and E ----> usual structure

Here, COMMA before and is replaced with DASH in the original question.

Thanks, its always good to discuss conceptual things with you brother.

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Frankenstein: Legendary Member; Posts: 1448; Joined: Tue May 17, 2011 9:55 amFollowed by: 53 members; Location: India; Thanked: 375 times

by Frankenstein » Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:01 pm

atulmangal wrote: ohh!!! i looked again and now i got the structure plus your point. My understanding is, here DASH is actually acting as a comma only as u said and the structure is same as

A, B, C, D, and E ----> usual structure

Here, COMMA before and is replaced with DASH in the original question.

Thanks, its always good to discuss conceptual things with you brother.

Hi,
Good to know that you are convinced

Your queries stimulate the thought process of others. Keep up the good work!

Cheers!

Things are not what they appear to be... nor are they otherwise

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