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Experts, please comment.

by gmat_perfect » Sun Mar 14, 2010 12:26 am
In have some doubtds:
1. The preposition "with" after comma is sometimes seen. I feel confusion whether there is any usage of "comma +with".

Would any one clarify the use of "with" after comma?

2. In some sentences, I have seen a modifier started with "with".

When should we use an open modifier with "with"?

Related examples are given below from GMATPREP:

Example#01:
India, like Italy and China, has no single dominant cuisine: Indian food comprises many different styles of cooking, with each a product of their regional influences, from the fiery vegetarian dishes of the south to the Portuguese-influenced Goan cooking of the West, to the more familiar Mogul food of the North

1. with each a product of their
2. with each as a product of its
3. each products of their
4. each a product of
5. each products of

Example#02:

In 1945, after a career as First Lady in which she shattered expectations more audaciously than either Abigail Adams or Dolly Madison ever had been, Eleanor Roosevelt was appointed a delegate to the United Nations General Assembly by President Harry S Truman.

(A) more audaciously than either Abigail Adams or Dolly Madison ever had been, Eleanor Roosevelt was appointed a delegate to the United Nations General Assembly by President Harry S Truman
(B) more audaciously than either Abigail Adams or Dolly Madison, President Harry S Truman had Eleanor Roosevelt appointed to be a delegate to the United Nations General Assembly
(C) with an audacity never matched in the case of Abigail Adams or Dolly Madison, President Harry S Truman had Eleanor Roosevelt appointed as a delegate to the United Nations General Assembly
(D) with an audacity never matched by Abigail Adams or Dolly Madison, Eleanor Roosevelt was appointed a delegate to the United Nations General Assembly by President Harry S Truman
(E) with an audacity never matched either in the case of Abigail Adams or of Dolly Madison's, Eleanor Roosevelt was appointed to be a delegate to the United Nations General Assembly by President Harry S Truman
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by rockeyb » Sun Mar 14, 2010 2:11 am
The preposition "with" after comma is sometimes seen. I feel confusion whether there is any usage of "comma +with".

Would any one clarify the use of "with" after comma?
I don't think there is any specific rule for comma + with . All you have to is find out if the preposition WITH is making sense in a sentence or not .

Ex : I will go WITH you.

He fought WITH his brother against the enemy .

So generally WITH is used to express the meaning of in addition to .
Example#01:
India, like Italy and China, has no single dominant cuisine: Indian food comprises many different styles of cooking, with each a product of their regional influences, from the fiery vegetarian dishes of the south to the Portuguese-influenced Goan cooking of the West, to the more familiar Mogul food of the North

1. with each a product of their
2. with each as a product of its
3. each products of their
4. each a product of
5. each products of

As far as modifiers are concerned you need to check if the modifiers are modifying the right thing or not .

If you consider the example above sentence "Indian food comprises many different styles of cooking" needs to be modified by whatever comes after comma .

Now try putting preposition WITH after the comma what dose it mean = Indian food comprises many different styles of cooking IN ADDITION TO each a product of their . Dose that make sense ?

Well then preposition WITH is not needed 1 and 2 are out .

The pronoun THEIR is used to refer to Indian food not correct .

Between 4 and 5 I will go with 4.


Example#02:

In 1945, after a career as First Lady in which she shattered expectations more audaciously than either Abigail Adams or Dolly Madison ever had been, Eleanor Roosevelt was appointed a delegate to the United Nations General Assembly by President Harry S Truman.

(A) more audaciously than either Abigail Adams or Dolly Madison ever had been, Eleanor Roosevelt was appointed a delegate to the United Nations General Assembly by President Harry S Truman
(B) more audaciously than either Abigail Adams or Dolly Madison, President Harry S Truman had Eleanor Roosevelt appointed to be a delegate to the United Nations General Assembly
(C) with an audacity never matched in the case of Abigail Adams or Dolly Madison, President Harry S Truman had Eleanor Roosevelt appointed as a delegate to the United Nations General Assembly
(D) with an audacity never matched by Abigail Adams or Dolly Madison, Eleanor Roosevelt was appointed a delegate to the United Nations General Assembly by President Harry S Truman
(E) with an audacity never matched either in the case of Abigail Adams or of Dolly Madison's, Eleanor Roosevelt was appointed to be a delegate to the United Nations General Assembly by President Harry S Truman
(A) Audacity of Eleanor Roosevelt needs to be compared with audacity of Abigail Adams or Dolly Madison , also past perfect is wrong, eliminate.
(B) The pronoun SHE in the sentence "after a career as First Lady in which SHE shattered expectations more audaciously than either Abigail Adams or Dolly Madison ever had been" need to modify Eleanor Roosevelt and not President Harry S Truman, eliminate.

(C) Same error as in B , eliminate .

My pick is between D and E and I will go with E .

Please correct me if me I am wrong .
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by kstv » Sun Mar 14, 2010 3:39 am
Example 2 - Between D and E the option E appear a bit wordy. IMO D.
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by Fiver » Sun Mar 14, 2010 6:07 am
gmat_perfect wrote: Example#01:
India, like Italy and China, has no single dominant cuisine: Indian food comprises many different styles of cooking, with each a product of their regional influences, from the fiery vegetarian dishes of the south to the Portuguese-influenced Goan cooking of the West, to the more familiar Mogul food of the North

1. with each a product of their
2. with each as a product of its
3. each products of their
4. each a product of
5. each products of
I think a 'comma+with' construction when peceeded by a clause tends to modify the action in the preceeding clause
and in that sense refers to the subject of the preceeding clause.
I request experts to take this further.

However, in this sentence modifiers 'each a product of it's regional influences' and the following examples (dishes of the south...mogul food) must modify 'Indian food', hence if we drop the 'with' and only use 'each a product'(option 4),
IMO it tends to modify the 'styles of cooking' rather than 'Indian food'

I choose B here.
What's the OA?

For example 2, D is clear.
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by mj41 » Mon Mar 15, 2010 8:04 am
In the second one I was confused between D and E and went for E as "Eleanor Roosevelt was appointed a delegate to the United Nations " didn't sound right.

Any expert opinions
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by rockeyb » Tue Mar 16, 2010 2:21 am
gmat_perfect wrote:In have some doubtds:
1. The preposition "with" after comma is sometimes seen. I feel confusion whether there is any usage of "comma +with".

Would any one clarify the use of "with" after comma?

2. In some sentences, I have seen a modifier started with "with".

When should we use an open modifier with "with"?

Related examples are given below from GMATPREP:
Ok here is its is :

comma + preposition (ex: with, in ) is an adverbial modifier .


What dose that mean , it means it modifies the complete phrase preceding the comma .

Lets see the example :

Example#01:
India, like Italy and China, has no single dominant cuisine: Indian food comprises many different styles of cooking, with each a product of their regional influences, from the fiery vegetarian dishes of the south to the Portuguese-influenced Goan cooking of the West, to the more familiar Mogul food of the North

1. with each a product of their
2. with each as a product of its
3. each products of their
4. each a product of
5. each products of

In the above example comma + with is modifying the clause Indian food comprises many different styles of cooking
Obviously between 1 and 2 ,2 is correct because of the pronoun ITS correctly referring to Indian food .

Now what it really means is Indian food not only comprise of different styles of cooking but also each type of Indian food is a product of ITS regional influences .

Now having that sorted out I just cant seem to find any flaw in 4 and 5 and why they are wrong ?


However I would say this is a special case of construction and I think we should make a note of this as this same construction is seen in many GMAT question .


The construction is comma + with (noun / pronoun) + AS A ...


Here is another example from OG repeating the same construction.

The diet of the ordinary Greek in classical times was largely vegetarian-vegetables, fresh cheese, oatmeal, and meal cakes, and meat rarely

a,and meat rarely

b, and meat was rare

c, with meat as rare

d, meat a rarity

e, with meat as a rarity

In this example too comma + with (noun / pronoun) + AS A ... is given preference above other options .

So I would like to know more about this type of construction and its use . Any one has any inputs please share .
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