GMAT CHEATERS

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GMAT CHEATERS

by Dude_Duder » Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:58 pm
Hi all,

I live in an Asian country and am currently studying for my GMAT. In my preparations I am obviously looking to get as much practice and tips as I can to get the highest score possible. I have, therefore, asked my friends about their study recommendations and I must say that I am somewhat disappointed, as their solution is ethically questionable in my eyes.

What I am told is basically that one can obtain GMAT questions that will very likely be on the exam ahead of the actual test. Apparently there are two ways that build on the fact that GMAC renews its questions only once a month or so:

1. Pay somebody to get you questions that appeared on the GMAT. I am guessing that a test center somewhere must be involved and "allow" someone two write down or take pictures of the questions that appear on the screen. Those are then later bundled and sold to individuals.

2. Become a member of an online community. Members of the community that take the exam will memorize a few questions and answer choices (only math section) and post them on the board for other members to see. The community has many members that assure it to get relevant questions.

Now, I already took the exam and studied hard to get a decent, but not great result. Of course I was tempted to subscribe to the methods above, but didn't do it in the end, because of ethical considerations - I think that I wouldn't want people that cheated their way into b-school sitting next to me.

However, I feel that my "honesty" is a disadvantage. If everybody cheats and gets a better score than me, then I will look less qualified to adcoms (others things being equal).


I would like to hear your opinions about these kind of practices! I would also like to receive a recommendation for what I should do; be honest and risk failure or retake the exam with "preparation" to improve my chances, but drop my moral standard? What else needs to be done about this to keep the chances fair for everyone?


P.S. I know my testimony may sound unbelievable to some, but I can assure you that it is a significant number of people that make use of these practices.
Last edited by Dude_Duder on Thu Aug 19, 2010 6:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by Tani » Thu Aug 19, 2010 7:21 am
DO NOT DO THAT! The practice is absolutely unethical. Last year GMAT discovered that people were posting current questions. They were able to get the names of people using those sites and people who had posted questions had their acceptances revoked. Some were dropped out of school. Scholarships were taken away. Last time they were lenient with people simply using the sites because they couldn't prove that those people knew the sites were illegal. There has been enough publicity now that they will not be so kind next time. If they find the sites (which can't be hard if people taking the test can do so), you could find yourself barred from any school. It is definitely NOT worth doing. And yes, the websites responsible were run out of Asian countries.

In addition, there are thousands of questions out there. The chance that you would actually get more than one or two of the illegally obtained questions on your test is low. The risk far outweighs the reward.

You need to be comfortable that you have stuck to your own moral convictions. Knowing that you have cheated would stay with you forever and taint the pride you would otherwise feel in your accomplishments. Study hard and know that you have behaved honorably.
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by crackverbal » Thu Aug 19, 2010 9:52 am
Firstly you did a smart thing by not falling for it - The last thing you want to do is compromise on your career by doing something as foolish. It is unethical and am not sure if an MBA degree is worth "'whatever it takes" to get through.

Secondly your assessment of Asian students taking GMAT is incorrect. I teach Verbal in Bangalore, India and in my class anything below 45 raw score is considered "poor" on Quant with most students scoring in the range of 47-51. This partly because of the schooling system in India (and I believe in China and other south-east asian countries) had a rigor that was unmatched. In most cases due to the single minded focus on the 3 Rs, students ended up in an extremely competitive environment. It was either move up or move out - far before the "firm" had it :) For the top engineering school in India - IIT, for about 4000 seats approximately 400,000 students toil to take the JEE each year. For the Indian Administrative Service (IAS) the story is even more competitive - around 900 officers are taken in from around 300,000 applicants. (infact 60 to 90 officers make it to the top IAS/IFS roles making it the toughest competitive exam on earth).

Coming specifically to the MBA scene, a classic example is the annual CAT exam for Bschools in India. More people used to take that test on a single day (since last year it is spread out over 3 weeks) than the entire world took GMAT in a whole year! @250,000 students - for about 1500 positions across 6 schools.

Many people in India who take GMAT are people who have tried for about 2-3 years on the CAT and ended up giving up. You are looking at students who have spent hundreds of hours at coaching, and many more hours burning the midnight oil honing up their math and verbal skills. Taking a "mock" test every Sunday is a ritual taken by the thousands of young IT engineers from top engineering schools (read the second para :)) When such rabidly competitive people take the GMAT the average is bound to go up.

However the flip side is students struggle with the verbal portion partly because we are non-native speakers and partly because we have inherited a British legacy instead of an American one due to our colonial past. Yes - when we stand in a line we call it a "queue" and drive cars on the right side of the road :) Most students average around the 20s and low-30s. A "classic" Indian split is Q49 V32 - scaled 660.

Arun

PS: If you think Asians (I can speak only for Indians though) do well on GMAT, you should see what we do to the GRE :)
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by Tani » Thu Aug 19, 2010 10:21 am
I absolutely agree that the scores coming out of Asia are higher than here - for many of the reasons you cite. But I also doubt that finding a few questions on a web site that you might actually run into on your test is unlikely to contribute significantly to a score differential.
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by uwhusky » Thu Aug 19, 2010 10:28 am
We should stick to the subject, which is don't cheat, and not perpetuate the various stereotypes, positive or negative.

CR baby, let's use it.
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by Dude_Duder » Thu Aug 19, 2010 3:49 pm
It certainly wasn't my intention to make generalizations about the merits and demerits of "Asians". I know that the educational system in many Asian countries is very demanding and prepares you well for standardized test. I also did not want to appear as a judge, but wanted to express my desire for GMAC to do more to ensure that the whole process remain transparent and fair. In addition I wanted to make sure that schools knew about these practices so that maybe the GMAT would lose some of its importance in the eyes of adcoms.

I just tried to make public what I had witnessed in an Asian country. I asked quite a few people about their preparation strategy and I am sorry to say, but it definitely was a large majority that made use of those offers described above. There is a possibility that my sample is not representative, but I feel that is a remote possibility only. From my discussions I had the feeling that you "need" to use the above methods if you are "serious" about going to school, because others will be less ethical and get a better score than you. (Yes, GMAT is only one admissions criteria, but I feel that it is more important for applicants that come out of a large applicant pool).

After opening this topic I did a little research about cheating on BTG and I came across a post (https://www.beatthegmat.com/first-time-6 ... t8416.html) that confirmed my fears. Also, after I passed my exam, I met up with a friend that had been to a "study class". He showed me the exercises they did and I could recognize at least 20 questions on his paper (about 200 questions) that had appeared on my exam just a few hours before... I therefore feel that this kind of preparation can indeed make a real difference!

I am firm in my mind that I will not "cheat" even if it means that I will not be going to a top school. I would even feel good about myself. However, if I see cheaters go to top schools, I will lose my total respect not only for those people, but also for Schools and the System that are incapable of detecting those fraud cases. I am sure that I am not the only one that feels like that and I therefore would urge schools and GMAC to fight these practices more virulently.

Kicking out one or two students a year will not change anything I am afraid. Rather, the GMAT test taking practices would have to be changed (Similar to LSAT ?) and schools need to put less (perceived ?) emphasis on the GMAT.

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by uwhusky » Thu Aug 19, 2010 4:16 pm
What's the Main Point of the above passage?

All I can find is that "Asians cheat", but I want to believe that there's more to the stimulus than just accusation...or is there?

Maybe I need to work on my CR skills more.

Actually I believe that this thread could be developed into a decent RC passage.

Question #1: Which of the following if true, best weakens the conclusion.

Question #2: What is the main point of the passage?

Question #3: Which one of the following parallels with the argument in the passage?

Question #4: Which one of the following is the assumption that the author must agree in his conclusion?
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by Dude_Duder » Thu Aug 19, 2010 5:43 pm
UWHusky,

I am not sure what you're trying to say with your CR stuff... There is more to life than the verbal section of the GMAT.

Again, I am not accusing any one people of cheating more than another. I chose not to name the country I live in so as not to compromise the reputation of its people (I should maybe have said "I live in a country" rather than "I live in an Asian country" so as not stir this silly race debate). It's not really complicated to set up an online community and gather current exam questions... it could happen anywhere...

My point was simply that there are people out there that organize themselves to "cheat" the GMAT and that there are other, honest people that try to do it the hard way. As someone who did it the hard way, I must admit that I am somewhat disappointed that honesty doesn't seem to pay off! It doesn't disturb you?!

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by uwhusky » Thu Aug 19, 2010 6:26 pm
There is more to life than the verbal section of the GMAT.
Perhaps you should take your own advice to heart.

and...yes you are.
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by Tani » Thu Aug 19, 2010 7:21 pm
Life often gives us tough decisions. You are to be commended for deciding to take the honest path. US schools are more and more concerned with ethics, especially in the light of some of the very visible corporate meltdowns, several of them headed by top school graduates. You will be able to hold your head high in your ethics classes next year. That may be small consolation for not getting into your dream schools, but you would not be happy living a dream built on a lie.

I will keep my fingers crossed for you. Hopefully your character and worth will shine through and you will find yourself in a great school and move proudly and ethically on to a great career.
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by humblebee » Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:33 pm
I read this post and just felt compelled to say something.

Why bother worrying about something you have absolutely no control over?

GMAT cheating is unethical and might give someone an advantage with a slightly higher score. But you know what else is unfair and is in the grey area? Using admin consultants (no offence to all the wonderful admin consultants here). Why? Because only the rich can afford them.

Life is unfair. Rather than be frustrated by all the cheats and things wrongs with this world, work on what you can control.

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by findmimi » Thu Dec 02, 2010 10:46 am
humblebee wrote:I read this post and just felt compelled to say something.

Why bother worrying about something you have absolutely no control over?

GMAT cheating is unethical and might give someone an advantage with a slightly higher score. But you know what else is unfair and is in the grey area? Using admin consultants (no offence to all the wonderful admin consultants here). Why? Because only the rich can afford them.

Life is unfair. Rather than be frustrated by all the cheats and things wrongs with this world, work on what you can control.
couldnt agree more.

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by Tani » Thu Dec 02, 2010 11:27 am
What you should worry about are your own standards. There will always be cheaters, but you don't have to join them.

As for consultants, things are unequal at every level - it would make as much sense to say being born with an exceptional brain is unfair, or having the opportunity and family support to get a great undergraduate education and a great job is unfair. There are opportunities and inequities at every step along the way. Beatthegmat users are taking advantage of a great way to access consultants, teachers and other applicants to enhance their experience and their chances. We all do the best with what we have to make our own abilities shine.

Good luck and be proud of who you are.
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by rishab1988 » Thu Dec 02, 2010 12:23 pm
As Mr M.K Gandhi said "Be the change you want to see".

As a matter of fact,even if you get someone to take our test at the test center,chances are that you may get caught.

Some of the possible reasons:-

1) The adcom is not a dumb guy.If he sees that you got a 40+ on a verbal and notices a poorly written essay,with several grammatical errors,he will reject you.[mostly for asian students.90% of asian students have higher percentile on quant than on verbal]

2) The GMAC might discover it sometime later.As a result,even if you have passed out of school,your degree may be revoked and the corporation in which you work may be informed!

3) If you are working in US,chances are you might loose your visa for no one is willing to offer you a job now

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by rishab1988 » Thu Dec 02, 2010 12:27 pm
Tani Wolff - Kaplan wrote:What you should worry about are your own standards. There will always be cheaters, but you don't have to join them.

As for consultants, things are unequal at every level - it would make as much sense to say being born with an exceptional brain is unfair, or having the opportunity and family support to get a great undergraduate education and a great job is unfair. There are opportunities and inequities at every step along the way. Beatthegmat users are taking advantage of a great way to access consultants, teachers and other applicants to enhance their experience and their chances. We all do the best with what we have to make our own abilities shine.

Good luck and be proud of who you are.
You hit the nail on the head.AFAIK btg is blocked in china.So,they are deprived of some amazing stuff that goes on here.

Just because you are poor or deprived of something doesn't mean that the same thing has to happen to others.An approach called "beggar thy neighbor!"

Just remember Madoff! [He's gonna serve 100+ years of his life in prison].These are the years people love to enjoy with their families and not with their prison inmates!!!

What good were those billions of dollars,which couldn't buy him even a tiny shred of happiness!