From 470 to 600 to 560 - Need Expert Advice. (:

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Here's my original debrief:
https://www.beatthegmat.com/from-470-to- ... 58337.html

Below is my debrief of my latest attempt:

Fifth: 560 (V-23, Q-45) on Sept 2010.

With my fifth attempt, I decided I needed to ground myself with fundamentals.

Thus, for Sentence correction - I made flashcards from numerous posts such as takeaway from Ron, MGMAT SC book and papgust post on SC. These were 65 hard copies flash cards that I carried everywhere, and went through them at least once a day.

For RC and CR - I practiced LSAT material from Kaplan, which had explanation for the questions rather than relying on online explanations. Did atleast 5 LSAT full tests under timed conditions. However, I did have to take 5 mins more on each section due to the long passages and tough RC's. My hit rate was approximately 55-65%. Not that high. I was hoping to reach 80%.

From my previous attempts and learning from my mistakes, I made sure I did full length tests. I also made a point to document my experience after each test in terms of lowlights, highlights, things to works on, repeat questions, with or w/o essay, etc; after learning from hardik.jadeja's error log.My GMAT test analysis is attached. Thank you hardik and kaulnikhil for your moral support and help.

I solved 6 MGMAT exams 2.5 times and 3-4 GMAT Prep exams. I did not solve too many GMAT Prep exams since I have done them before and know the answers, which would wrongly reflect my score.

Test Center experience:

There were many people at the test center giving GMAT even on a weekday. Essays were a sweep. Finished the first one 2 mins early and the second one essay just in time.

Quant section:

I hid the timer, since that kicks my anxiety level. Quant section was going pretty well in terms of timing and how I was doing on the section. In mid-section, I came across couple of word problems and one or two tough coordinate geometry problems, which costing me lot of time. In the end, I had about 5-6 mins for last 5 questions. Tried to solve two of them correctly and last 3 questions, I randomly guessed as C.


Verbal section:

Even though my quant section was ok, I drank 1 ml of energy drink and decided to focus on the verbal section. Again started off well with good timing till the ffirst 10-15 sections. It was until a RC really changed things for me in the verbal section. Lost some time here.

The initial time I lost, I paid really high penalty in the end. In fact, the previous two attempts, I had done much better in terms of timing on the verbal section. I had about 10 mins for 10 questions. Tried to focus on SC, CR and RC in order of sections that I was good and throw away categories, which was RC. Thanks Ron for your awesome timing strategy with Thursday's with Ron.

Obviously, I do not have the score I need to get into some of top schools. Clearly, GMAT is such a big deciding factor even though I have other pieces of applications in place.

Most applicants will tell me to focus on my applications and to give up GMAT because I have reached my limit, which would very well be true. However, why should I let one damn exam be my deciding faith for the career I want to pursue.

I am seeking expert advice on what are your recommendations.

There is one applicant who had similar case like mine:

https://www.beatthegmat.com/gmat-6-times ... 37598.html

1. Who was his or her MGMAT tutor? If anyone knows him or her, please pm me with details.

2. What do you recommend I do in terms should I take gmat again? or consider giving TOEFL to show that English is not an issue for me. Does anyone have experience with top schools who consider TOEFL as an good indicator of your English capabilities.

I am looking for genuine advice.

Thank you for your support.
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by adi_800 » Tue Sep 28, 2010 5:24 am
Hi,

Sorry to hear about your experience...
I have been through a very similar experience...Did not get what I was expecting...
So, wont be a right person to give any tips to you... But what I feel is...You should contact some admission consultant as to whether no. of attempts does have any impact in terms of getting an admit...So, dat wud b surely helpful...
Also, you can contact the skools that you wanna apply to and ask them what their response would be after they see a candidate with more than 3 attempts...

As far as I know, they say...3 attempts are fine...But not after that...
Also, as you are done with 5 attempts, I think its time to apply with the highest score (600)...I just got to know that there are US skools with avg. score of around 560-600 and they will accept you as you are having masters too....

Sometimes...in life...you won't get what you strive for...
That does not mean you should not be applying to mba and never do an MBA..

One more thing that i noticed with the other guy going for 6 attempts and scoring 680 is...He was having low quant score and very strong verbal score...So, getting your quant score up is always easy n he did that..But we Indians are always strong at quant and face problems while improving verbal...

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by 750Goal » Tue Sep 28, 2010 8:00 pm
Hi Adi,

Thank you for your comments. I have contacted all the schools that I am interested in applying and here's the takeaway:
1. School 1- says that will accept TOEFL as a supplement.
2. School 2& 3- says they give more weight to GMAT and not TOEFL that much. Good to have.

All schools mentioned no. of attempts do not matter as long as your scores are improving in all attempts.

I do not know where you get your information about max 3 attempts, but I do not believe there is such a rule.
It is just a general rule that I believe posters have developed over period of years.

I agree with your last point that it is much easier to increase Quant, than Verbal score.

I hope to hear from the GMAT Experts!
adi_800 wrote:Hi,

Sorry to hear about your experience...
I have been through a very similar experience...Did not get what I was expecting...
So, wont be a right person to give any tips to you... But what I feel is...You should contact some admission consultant as to whether no. of attempts does have any impact in terms of getting an admit...So, dat wud b surely helpful...
Also, you can contact the skools that you wanna apply to and ask them what their response would be after they see a candidate with more than 3 attempts...

As far as I know, they say...3 attempts are fine...But not after that...
Also, as you are done with 5 attempts, I think its time to apply with the highest score (600)...I just got to know that there are US skools with avg. score of around 560-600 and they will accept you as you are having masters too....

Sometimes...in life...you won't get what you strive for...
That does not mean you should not be applying to mba and never do an MBA..

One more thing that i noticed with the other guy going for 6 attempts and scoring 680 is...He was having low quant score and very strong verbal score...So, getting your quant score up is always easy n he did that..But we Indians are always strong at quant and face problems while improving verbal...

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by hardik.jadeja » Wed Sep 29, 2010 2:06 am
I am not an admission consultant but here's what I think...

Just as most b-schools do not set any minimum GMAT score requirement, they also do not have any rule that mentions maximum GMAT attempts allowed. As we know GMAT is just one part of your application and applications at all the top b-schools are reviewed holistically, with a person's work experience and academic background considered with the potential for scholarly success at the graduate level. If the rest of your application is solid, then you can definitely compensate for the low GMAT score or the number of attempts. Last year, if I remember correctly, someone got admitted to HBS with a 530 GMAT score and as you know joostinshu got admitted to Cornell with 6 GMAT attempts. But as per my understanding, the importance of GMAT score and the number of attempts depend on rest of your application. If rest of your applications is solid and you have a very strong and a unique story, then importance of GMAT in your application is lesser compared with the importance of GMAT for someone who has a mediocre application. If you think your application is unique, then its okay to go for one more attempt, but if you think that the admission committee will receive at least one application similar to yours but with a better score in fewer attempts, then there are more chances that the admission committee will give preference to that other application. So in that scenario, it is better to concentrate on the rest of your application in order to make it unique and convincing, rather than going for one more GMAT attempt.

You are absolutely right. Why should you let one damn exam be the deciding faith for the career you want to pursue. You have other options open. You can go for GRE. Many top ranked b-schools have started accepting GRE scores. All you need to do is get in touch with the school and ask them about the number of students getting admitted with GRE score and the average GRE score in the class.
750Goal wrote: All schools mentioned no. of attempts do not matter as long as your scores are improving in all attempts.

I do not know where you get your information about max 3 attempts, but I do not believe there is such a rule.
It is just a general rule that I believe posters have developed over period of years.
I attended The MBA Tour last weekend and I met one of the UCLA adcom representative there. Well I do not want to discourage you, but he did say that the number of GMAT attempts do not matter as long as it is under 5. He said when the adcom sees more than 5 attempts, the committee starts to suspect applicant's academic preparedness.

But the bottom line is - the importance of GMAT score and the number of attempts is not same for everyone. It depends on rest of the application. I advice that you get your profile reviewed by one of the admission consultant before attempting GMAT again. Try this forum - https://www.beatthegmat.com/ask-an-mba-a ... t-f40.html . If possible, have a phone conversation and explain you profile in detail.

hope that helps..

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by lunarpower » Wed Oct 06, 2010 1:22 am
well
there's not a whole ton of specific advice that i can give here, since you actually haven't given any information that is particular to subject areas -- i.e., you've posted your quantitative and verbal scores, but you haven't explicitly given any indications as to which areas are the most challenging for you (other than noting that RC is a throwaway category).

therefore, some extremely general advice:

* there's no harm in taking the exam again, as some of the other posters have indicated. if you think you have room for improvement, you may as well give it another shot.

* perhaps the WORST thing you can do with sentence correction is review entire problems all at once -- there's just way too much stuff going on in each individual problem. if you already have so much knowledge of sentence correction that each new problem only presents you with 1-2 things you don't already know, then you can get away with going over entire problems (because you won't be overwhelmed if that's the case); however, if you're starting from a decently low point (as is the case for almost all non-native speakers of english), then trying to do the entire problems at once is just going to overwhelm you.
try picking exactly ONE major topic at a time -- i.e., parallelism, pronouns, etc. -- and looking for ONLY that topic in a very large number of OG problems.
you're probably going to find this a little bit frustrating at first, since you are not really going to get answers to the problems -- you're going to have to settle for eliminating a couple of choices, and then moving on -- but you will find that you will learn a lot more.
for instance, let's say that you are going through OG problems and looking only for parallelism.
you'll get to problem #6, and noticed that you need "salt ... was crystallizing" in order to create proper parallelism with "fungus was growing". so, eliminate b/c/d and QUIT AND MOVE ON.
if you do this for an absurdly high number of problems -- say, 75-100 of them -- you will find that you are much more capable at that topic when you are done.

* in quant, try concentrating almost exclusively on backup methods -- number plugging, estimation, etc. if you like the thursday study halls, try watching the february 4 edition, and then go apply those techniques to as many problems as possible from the OG. i.e., ignore textbook solutions completely, even if they are easy for you, and just try to apply the backup methods as often as you can.

good luck.

750Goal wrote:Here's my original debrief:
https://www.beatthegmat.com/from-470-to- ... 58337.html

Below is my debrief of my latest attempt:

Fifth: 560 (V-23, Q-45) on Sept 2010.

With my fifth attempt, I decided I needed to ground myself with fundamentals.

Thus, for Sentence correction - I made flashcards from numerous posts such as takeaway from Ron, MGMAT SC book and papgust post on SC. These were 65 hard copies flash cards that I carried everywhere, and went through them at least once a day.

For RC and CR - I practiced LSAT material from Kaplan, which had explanation for the questions rather than relying on online explanations. Did atleast 5 LSAT full tests under timed conditions. However, I did have to take 5 mins more on each section due to the long passages and tough RC's. My hit rate was approximately 55-65%. Not that high. I was hoping to reach 80%.

From my previous attempts and learning from my mistakes, I made sure I did full length tests. I also made a point to document my experience after each test in terms of lowlights, highlights, things to works on, repeat questions, with or w/o essay, etc; after learning from hardik.jadeja's error log.My GMAT test analysis is attached. Thank you hardik and kaulnikhil for your moral support and help.

I solved 6 MGMAT exams 2.5 times and 3-4 GMAT Prep exams. I did not solve too many GMAT Prep exams since I have done them before and know the answers, which would wrongly reflect my score.

Test Center experience:

There were many people at the test center giving GMAT even on a weekday. Essays were a sweep. Finished the first one 2 mins early and the second one essay just in time.

Quant section:

I hid the timer, since that kicks my anxiety level. Quant section was going pretty well in terms of timing and how I was doing on the section. In mid-section, I came across couple of word problems and one or two tough coordinate geometry problems, which costing me lot of time. In the end, I had about 5-6 mins for last 5 questions. Tried to solve two of them correctly and last 3 questions, I randomly guessed as C.


Verbal section:

Even though my quant section was ok, I drank 1 ml of energy drink and decided to focus on the verbal section. Again started off well with good timing till the ffirst 10-15 sections. It was until a RC really changed things for me in the verbal section. Lost some time here.

The initial time I lost, I paid really high penalty in the end. In fact, the previous two attempts, I had done much better in terms of timing on the verbal section. I had about 10 mins for 10 questions. Tried to focus on SC, CR and RC in order of sections that I was good and throw away categories, which was RC. Thanks Ron for your awesome timing strategy with Thursday's with Ron.

Obviously, I do not have the score I need to get into some of top schools. Clearly, GMAT is such a big deciding factor even though I have other pieces of applications in place.

Most applicants will tell me to focus on my applications and to give up GMAT because I have reached my limit, which would very well be true. However, why should I let one damn exam be my deciding faith for the career I want to pursue.

I am seeking expert advice on what are your recommendations.

There is one applicant who had similar case like mine:

https://www.beatthegmat.com/gmat-6-times ... 37598.html

1. Who was his or her MGMAT tutor? If anyone knows him or her, please pm me with details.

2. What do you recommend I do in terms should I take gmat again? or consider giving TOEFL to show that English is not an issue for me. Does anyone have experience with top schools who consider TOEFL as an good indicator of your English capabilities.

I am looking for genuine advice.

Thank you for your support.
Ron has been teaching various standardized tests for 20 years.

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