Disagree with OA [GMAT-Hacks Challenge number properties]

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When positive integer a is divided by 5, the remainder is 3. What is the value of a?

(1) When a is divided by 6, the remainder is 1.
(2) When a is divided by 4, the remainder is 1.

OA E

GMAT Hacks' explanation >>>

Given the information in the question, the value of a could be 8, 13,18, etc.-3 greater than any multiple of 5.

Statement (1) is insufficient; a could be 7, 13, 19, 25, etc. There's one overlap so far between that list and the initial lists of possible a's-it could be 13. However, it could be 43 as well. To Â…nd that number quickly, realize that the patterns of multiples of 5 and 6 "restart" every 30 integers (30, because that's the least common multiple of 5 and 6). So a could be 13 greater than any multiple of 30.

Statement (2) is also insufficient. The logic in (1) suggests that, whatever the possible values of a, there will be more than 1. In this case, a again could be 13, and since the LCM of 5 and 4 is 20, the process will restart every 20 integers. So a could be 13 greater than any multiple of 20, meaning that a might be 13, 33, 53, etc.

Taken together, the statements are still insufficient. We've seen that a could be 13, and it could also be 13 greater than the LCM of the three numbers, which is 60, or any multiple thereof. So while a must be of the form 60i + 13, that doesn't give us a single value. Choice (E) is correct.
>>>

My solution:
a=5i+3, where i is a positive integer

Statement (1) a=6i+1, set equation 5i+3=6i+1 <> i=2 <> 2 is a positive integer, a=5*2+3, a=13 <> Satisfies with a=6i+1 (deleted 3, mistyping)
Statement (2) a=4i+1, set equation 5i+3=4i+1 <> i=-2 <> -2 is not a positive integer <> Does not satisfy

Select A as the correct answer.
Last edited by Night reader on Wed Dec 01, 2010 12:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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by Laura GMAT Tutor » Tue Nov 30, 2010 11:43 pm
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by beat_gmat_09 » Tue Nov 30, 2010 11:46 pm
i cannot be same !
a=6i+1 i=0 a = 1 ; i = 3 a = 19 ;
a=5i+3 i=0 a =3 ; i=3 a = 18

Pick numbers in such questions, its more helpful.
i=2 <> 2 is a positive integer, a=5*2+3, a=13 <> Satisfies with a=6i+3
i=2 a = 13. with 6 a = 15, remainder is 3, statement says remainder is 1.
Last edited by beat_gmat_09 on Tue Nov 30, 2010 11:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by Night reader » Tue Nov 30, 2010 11:51 pm
Laura GMAT Tutor wrote:The problem with your equations is that you're using "i" as the consistent integer. There's no reason to say that the quotient would be the same in both cases.
See look:
33/5 = 6 R 3
33/6 = 5 R 3
33/4 = 8 R 1
So that's all these different quotients... 6, 5, 8 for a start.

Remember, your goal is to solve for the integer A. The numbers 33 and 63 fit ALL the qualifications given. So there are at least two values, and in fact there are infinite values that satisfy all the given conditions.
Laura, I am solving for an integer. I have different quotients in the Statement (1) 5i and 6i and these are the quotients of 10 and 12.

I disagree.
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by Night reader » Tue Nov 30, 2010 11:54 pm
beat_gmat_09 wrote:i cannot be same !
a=6i+1 i=0 a = 1 ; i = 3 a = 19 ;
a=5i+3 i=0 a =3 ; i=3 a = 18

Picking numbers in such questions, its more helpful.
i=2 <> 2 is a positive integer, a=5*2+3, a=13 <> Satisfies with a=6i+3
i=2 a = 13. with 6 a = 15, remainder is 3, statement says remainder is 1.
Yes and with the quotient formula we are open for infinite number of values of a-s.
Our aim is to solve for the integer - the right integer.

I still disagree.
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by beat_gmat_09 » Wed Dec 01, 2010 12:00 am
Night reader wrote: I still disagree.
How about 43, it fits this. 43/5 remainder 3
43/6 remainder is 1.
You don't have one value for a.
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by Night reader » Wed Dec 01, 2010 12:07 am
beat_gmat_09 wrote:
Night reader wrote: I still disagree.
How about 43, it fits this. 43/5 remainder 3
43/6 remainder is 1.
You don't have one value for a.
Hey 6i+3 was mistyping - I have edited; it doesn't weather GMAT-Hack's OA.

a=13
1) we solve for an integer
2) assign 'a' its value
3) the quotient formula without an integer or a divisor (the actual quotient) would be open to million of values of multiple (a)

I am still in the doom ...
Last edited by Night reader on Wed Dec 01, 2010 12:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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by Laura GMAT Tutor » Wed Dec 01, 2010 12:07 am
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by Night reader » Wed Dec 01, 2010 12:13 am
Laura neither 33 nor 63 fits Statement (1) - it was mistyping

a=6i+1 not a=6i+3

I think you are mechanically dragging numbers to my attention... that's funny
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by beat_gmat_09 » Wed Dec 01, 2010 12:14 am
Night reader wrote: a=13
1) we solve for an integer
2) assign 'a' its value
3) the quotient formula without an integer or a divisor (the actual quotient) would be open to million of values of multiple (a)

I am still in the doom ...
The statement should give you one and only one value for a, which satisfies the condition in question stem (/5 remainder 3) and condition in any statement, here in A (/6 remainder is 1) as many such values are possible for a using condition in question stem and condition in statement 1 A is insufficient (values 13 and 43 are examples - they tell you there is no single value of a. Thus A is not sufficient to answer). Keep apart the formula and think, use numbers.
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by Night reader » Wed Dec 01, 2010 12:20 am
beat_gmat_09 wrote:
Night reader wrote: a=13
1) we solve for an integer
2) assign 'a' its value
3) the quotient formula without an integer or a divisor (the actual quotient) would be open to million of values of multiple (a)

I am still in the doom ...
The statement should give you one and only one value for a, which satisfies the condition in question stem (/5 remainder 3) and condition in any statement, here in A (/6 remainder is 1) as many such values are possible for a using condition in question stem and condition in statement 1 A is insufficient (values 13 and 43 are examples - they tell you there is no single value of a. Thus A is not sufficient to answer). Keep apart the formula and think, use numbers.
The problem with you guys is that you are not listening to me:

I am not testing a=5i+3 it's given as a condition - I am testing for i (integer)

I will write to Jeff today
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by Geva@EconomistGMAT » Wed Dec 01, 2010 12:34 am
Night reader wrote:Laura neither 33 nor 63 fits Statement (1) - it was mistyping

a=6i+1 not a=6i+3

I think you are mechanically dragging numbers to my attention... that's funny
Nightreader, these good people are trying to tell you that it's not the same i. The solution for a does not have to rely on the same quotient for 5 and 6 - there are number that satisfy both the stem and the statements with different quotients for 5 and 6.

The correct calculation, using your approach, would be:

Stem: a=5i+3

Stat. (1): a=6n+1 (use a different variable for the quotient)

Equate the two and get 5i+3=6n+1
5i = 6n-2

i = (6n-2) / 5

Thus if n=2, then i=6*2-2 / 5 = 10/5 = 2, and i is also equal to 2 - which is why 13 satisfies both the stem and statement, as the quotient is equal to 2 for both. But at the end of the day, you have a single equation with 2 unknowns in and n, which has an infinite number of pairs of solutions. Any n for which 6n is "two more than a multiple of 5" will satisfy the equation, and give you a number which satisfies both the stem and stat. (1).

For example, if n=7, then i = (6*7-2) / 5 = (42-2)5 = 40/5 = 8
Which is why 43 is also a valid plug in for a:
a=5i+3 = 5*8+3 = 43, which is the sane as a=6n+1 = 6*7+1 = 42+1 = 43.
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by Night reader » Wed Dec 01, 2010 12:48 am
Geva, may be I am dull in this remainder topic :(

yet problem doesn't ask if a=5i+3 ? it gives this as a condition

so Statement (1) a=6i+1 is qualified with a=5i+3

otherwise from a=5i+3 we can generate infnitely many values of a that, when divided by 5, have a remainder of 3.

or we need less (<) greater (>) limits for a.

now why we think that 'i' in the question stem is not 'i' in the statement, but 'n'?
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by shovan85 » Wed Dec 01, 2010 12:52 am
Night reader wrote:When positive integer a is divided by 5, the remainder is 3. What is the value of a?

(1) When a is divided by 6, the remainder is 1.
(2) When a is divided by 4, the remainder is 1.

My solution:

a=5i+3, where i is a positive integer

Statement (1) a=6i+1, set equation 5i+3=6i+1 <> i=2 <> 2 is a positive integer, a=5*2+3, a=13 <> Satisfies with a=6i+1 (deleted 3, mistyping)
Hi Nightereader,

Please think again. Is 13 is the Only possibility to satisfy 5i+3 and 6i'+1?

13, when you divide with 5 you get remainder 3.
13, when you divide with 6 you get remainder 1.

What about 43, 73, 103, 133,....(add 30 each time [LCM (5,6)])?

73, divide by 5 renmainder 3.
73, divide by 6 remainder 1.

Forget about quotient we are not bothered about that but by taking only option 1 and the question we have multiple possible values for a .

Thus Not sufficient.
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by Night reader » Wed Dec 01, 2010 12:59 am
Shovan, I am out - E is correct.

I brought another const. into the problem 'i'; it doesn't say that 'i' or 5i or 6i - summarizing, quotients must be the same.

and Yes Statement (1) is not sufficient.
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