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Kelley vs. Top 5

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Kelley vs. Top 5

by JiuJitsuGuy » Wed Dec 22, 2010 8:16 am
Hello all,

I have been researching future career opportunities and, based on my interests, I feel that business school lines up with where I want my career to go. I have begun discussions with my wife and we alway get hung up on my desire to attend a top 5 business school full-time (research is ongoing but Wharton is at the top of the list) over IU Kelley. Part of my desire to attend a top 5 school over Kelley is pride while another part is my desire to justify leaving work for two years to experience business school. If I stay at Kelley, I would do a part-time evening MBA while working full-time earning an engineer's salary.

I would like to hear thoughts on other pros and cons that I should consider when making this decision. My initial thought was that I pursue two best fit top 5 schools then use Kelley as a "back-up" option (based on placement rates and profiles of others I know who have been accepted, I would expect acceptance to Kelley assuming sufficient GMAT score).

Here are a few points about my profile:

-Mechanical Engineer with 3.4 undergrad gpa from a state university (2007 grad)
-Fraternity president in undergrad (among other positions)
-3 years work experience
-Extracurriculars include: Big Brothers Big Sisters (2008-present), Book Buddies (2009-present), Delta Sigma Phi Alumni Board Member (2010 - present), Brazilian Jiu Jitsu (2008 - present)
-Career interests: Interested in business strategy. Specifically, expansions into emerging markets and new market related to the company's core proficiencies.


Information I am hoping to obtain from this discussion includes:

-Assumptions that should be made
-->Starting salary of top 5 vs. Kelley
-->Salary growth of top 5 vs. Kelley
-->Is there a real, quantifiable benefit to attending FT vs. PT program?
-->Is there an ideal method for calculating the payback? I was going to use basic login and maybe dig up some engineering econ stuff.
-->School recommended based on my career interests.
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by JiuJitsuGuy » Wed Jan 05, 2011 9:10 am
Does anyone have any input? I am not necessarily looking for expert feedback (altough, it's welcome) so any thoughful feedback would be greatly appreciated.
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by rishi raj » Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:40 pm
-->Starting salary of top 5 vs. Kelley
Download the document from the link . You'll be able to compare the salaries and other parameters.
https://www.beatthegmat.com/us-business- ... 69859.html
-->Salary growth of top 5 vs. Kelley
Salary growth is quite a subjective term and depends a lot on your performance post-MBA. However, given the fact that you perform competently in you job, I think that the kind of profiles you'll land up with if you are a Harvard, Stanford or Wharton graduate will be amazing.
Depending on how you will like to interpret it, you may call it being prejudiced or you may call it being rational, the corporate world loves guys from the top 5. Did you know that 70% of the Tuck graduates go on to assume the top jobs in their companies(CEO,CFO, CMO). So whether it be reviving at an ailing unit or foraying into a new market, organizations like to give them roles which they'd not have otherwise thought of giving to an engineer with loads of amount of work experience or to an MBA from a lower rung school. It becomes easier for the senior management to justify their decisions in front of PE funds or VCs who would be breathing down their necks all the time. And with a better profile, you will obviously get rewarded with a fatter paycheck. So though the difference in the starting salaries may not be wide ,but the difference keeps on increasing over the years.I'm not generalizing it because there are people who are from lower rung schools or for that matter not even armed with an MBA degree who do exceptionally well, but I am plainly taking into account "data" or facts.
-->Is there a real, quantifiable benefit to attending FT vs. PT program?
I'd say that there's a lot of difference between a FT and a PT program. A PT program is good for those who want to just keep on working in the same company or probably in the same domain and are looking to get into management. Though it'd be help you but the growth will be maybe 20% better than what it could be without any MBA degree. A PT is basically for three categories of people
1.Entrepreneurs - who cannot afford to attend school full time
2. Exceptional Performers - People who are doing exceptionally well in their current jobs and don't want to leave it.
3. The Secure babies- People who are neither doing exceptionally well in their jobs nor are entrepreneurs , want an MBA degree but are scared enough to leave the security of their jobs for a variety of reasons or maybe excuses.
I don't think that there's any category of candidates who enroll in Part Time programs. Ask yourself, whether you fit into any of the three categories. If you don't , then better go for a Full-time MBA program.
-->Is there an ideal method for calculating the payback? I was going to use basic login and maybe dig up some engineering econ stuff.
The payback period depends on a couple of factors. For eg, a person with a spouse(who doesn't work) and a kid would not have the flexibility
vi-a-vis a person who's still to be married and can afford to cut down the costs of lving.
In general, you should be able to pay the loans in around 5-6 years irrespective of the fact that you graduate from a top school where the average tuition maybe about $100k or from a state school where the average tuition is around $65k
-->School recommended based on my career interests.
You've to be more specific in your career interests. However, Harvard, Stanford and to an extent Kellogg will be the best choices ,on the basis of the information you have given.

Hope that you'll find all the information above useful. :) However, all of the above are solely my perspectives and you may want to talk to a lot of people before making a decision. I think what has really helped me is that I have interacted with a lot of top school and lower rung graduates in the last one year ,so that has broadened my horizons .
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by JiuJitsuGuy » Sun Jan 09, 2011 7:19 am
Thank you for the reply, Rishi. I appreciate your input alink to your other post with the school rankings and salary information. Excellent document.
___________________________________________________________

I did receive one other response in my inbox that I thought I would share. Hopefully others making similar considerations will find this perspective insightful as well.
___________________________________________________________

Hi.

I just saw your posting about your MBA options and wanted to PM you some thoughts. With the exception of age (my college years were long ago and only now going back for the MBA) I thought there were alot of similarities. I was also a fraternity president (Alpha Sigma Phi), rush chairman, etc....I went to school for engineering. While I dont do jiu jitsu Ive always been very interested in the mixed martial arts and used to attend all the UFC events in NJ back in the pre marriage days. I actually am almost 100% certain that I will be taking part in Kelleys online MBA program this spring (I could still decide last second to do NYUs part time program).

Based on your post I am guessing you attended Kelley for your undergrad since you mentioned staying there? If that is the case I would highly recommend not obtaining your MBA from the college where you got your undergraduate degree. From everything I have read on the subject its far better to have your MBA from another school. That would also expand your networking opportunities as you would benefit not just from Kelley's network but from your secondary school if you were looking for new work. If staying in the area is a necessity (and I'm not too familiar with the geography of Indiana) I would strongly consider looking at Notre Dame or Purdue. Both rank slightly below Indiana in most rankings, but both are very highly respected programs.

Clearly the benefits of remaining at home and in your current job are the fact that you don't have to uproot your family for school and you can maintain your current employment. As an engineer you should be making much more money than most business school grads so the cost to leave your job is much higher. Moving would also mean your wife would have to find a new job (I'm assuming she works and maybe that is not a great assumption) but in this market finding a new job may not be easy. I live in NJ and I can tell you the hiring for all kinds of work here is terrible right now.

That said if you can ace your GMAT and do well enough on your applications to go to a top or 10 program I would do it. One of things I will always regret after looking back is that I did not do that when I was younger. I likely could have made a top 10 school and maybe top 5. Its no longer an option now because Im older and have a very young daughter at home so leaving work is not possible on my wifes salary. I think the opportunities if you graduate from a Columbia or Wharton are endless. The one negative about a program like Kelley is that the high level jobs are not occupied by as many of those graduates especially in the northeast so you wont have as many outstanding opportunities as you would with a top 5 degree. In addition, while the starting salaries are not that different I think the high end salaries are. I recently read an article on the average lifetime compensation of the top 50 schools and I want to say the difference between Kelley and Harvard was probably close to 1 million and Kelley is generally regarded as a top 20 program. I cant remember where it was published but I think it was businessweek.

As for FT vs PT I think there are a number of things to consider. Part Time is a bit more for the older folks like myself who are not so much job switchers as they are looking to enhance their knowledge to be applied to the current job and of course help the resume if they do decide to look elsewhere. Standards of admission are generally lower as well. If you go that route its important to enroll in a program where the FT and PT staff are essentially the same (I believe Kelley is...I know that their online program uses the same instructors as their Bloomington day program) and you will have the same access to career services. One of the negatives of NYUs part time program is you are completely segregated from their full time program. You are not placed in their recruitment files. You are not allowed to apply for internships. You cant do any of the recruitment fair/career fair days at the school. They know the FT program is what helps their rankings and do not want part timers to interfere with their full time recruitment stats. Full Time is going to give you a better chance to network because you are going to spend a ton of time with your peers. I think alot of startup companies come out of MBA folks that are enrolled in school together and brainstorm. You will get to listen to presentations and discussions with some very high level execs in FT programs which dont happen as often for the night students. My guess is you also get more motivated students. I know almost all my friends who have done a PT MBA have done nothing but complain about the workload whereas when I read things about FT programs its all positive despite the workload. I think many part time students consider the MBA as a checkmark on a resume whereas FTs look at it as opening new doors, careers, thoughts, etc...Most of the top programs do not offer a part time program. Indiana for instance is regarded as a top 10 part time program. NYU is usually number 1, though I think they were ranked 5th by US News this time around.

Starting salaries of the top 5 is not terribly different from the top 20. For example Wharton is 123K (bonus and salary) while Kelley was 107K. When you consider that well over 50% of Whartons graduates work in the northeast and west, where cost of living is much higher, while most of Indianas are in the midwest the final difference is not very large. Again, though, I think as time goes on your earning potential is much higher.

What I would do if I were you is purchase the US News graduate school magazine while will give you the rankings of FT and PT programs as well as information like starting salaries and job placement and job locations for the full time programs. I think most people believe that the US News rankings are probably the best indicator of a program and are most used by recruiters. I find Businessweeks rankings a little wild, but they have tremendously detailed profiles on every school especially the part time programs. You can use their website to best compare the differences between a certain schools part time and full time program. Its all free online.

I'd anticipate you getting alot of varied responses to your FT and PT questions either via PM or in your discussion post. At the end of the day its probably one of those things that you will have to decide for yourself after getting feedback and doing your own research.

Best of luck!
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by rishi raj » Mon Jan 10, 2011 12:05 am
@JiuJitsuGuy

That was a very detailed and insightful response. Thanks for sharing it here. If you'll see my response and this person's response, you'll see similar underpinnings.
So what are your views now ?
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by JiuJitsuGuy » Wed Jan 12, 2011 4:53 am
Well, my views have not changed. I am still interested in leaving work to attend a top 5 school (if I am accepted). I was actually hoping to gain perspective from someone who has had to make a similar decision but opted against leaving work and doing a part-time program instead. Perhaps they would have some reasons that I have yet to consider. I am now trying to gain insight from people around my company who have made similar decisions. Kelley MBAs are abundant around here so I should be able to find many people who have strong reasons to support their decision to obtain a degree from Kelley while working. I also know a person who travels up to Chicago each weekend for the Booth weekend program. He may have some good insight as well.

Thanks again, Rishi, for the insight. Also, a big thanks to the other person who provided feedback via my message box.
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