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As an actress...

by josemaus » Mon Aug 09, 2010 11:54 am

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As an actress and, more importantly, as a teacher of acting, Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, who trained several generations of actors including Marlon Brando and Robert de Niro.

A. Same as above
B. Stella Adler, one of the most influential artists in the American theater, trained several generations of actors who include
C. Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, training several generations of actors whose ranks included
D. one of the most influential artists in the American theater was Stella Adler, who trained several generations of actors including
E. one of the most influential artists in the American theater, Stella Adler, trained several generations of actors whose ranks included

OA: C

Will provide question in following post
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by josemaus » Mon Aug 09, 2010 12:05 pm

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I had originally selected B, because retension of meaning and accuracy, even though tenses fluctuate. My point of contention is with the use of "was". Choices A, C, and D all use "was", and I do not believe that the use is correct, because are we to assume that her impact is no longer influential? Just as Edison is one of the greatest inventors of our time, so too should Stella Adler be for teaching and acting.

Same principle with the use of "included". "Included" is past tense, meaning no longer, but Marlon Brando and de Niro will forever be considered two actors for whom she taught.

Can someone shed some more light on this? Thank you
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by kvcpk » Mon Aug 09, 2010 12:14 pm

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whats wrong with A?
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by beatthegmatinsept » Mon Aug 09, 2010 12:17 pm

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I read the sentence again and again, trying to find something wrong with option A, but couldn't.
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by reply2spg » Mon Aug 09, 2010 12:47 pm

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How 'ranks include' in C is correct? And as other asking why A is wrong?

What is the source of this question?
Sudhanshu
(have lot of things to learn from all of you)
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by dinesh19aug » Mon Aug 09, 2010 2:39 pm

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kvcpk wrote:whats wrong with A?
As an actress and, more importantly, as a teacher of acting, Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, who trained several generations of actors including Marlon Brando and Robert de Niro.

A. Same as above
B. Stella Adler, one of the most influential artists in the American theater, trained several generations of actors who include
C. Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, training several generations of actors whose ranks included
D. one of the most influential artists in the American theater was Stella Adler, who trained several generations of actors including
E. one of the most influential artists in the American theater, Stella Adler, trained several generations of actors whose ranks included

Explanation:

A) INCORRECT - It has modifier error - ".....artists in the American theater, who trained several...", it looks like Theater trained the actors.

B) INCORRECT - Though it fixes the modifier error, it created another error - "...actors who include....", Who is singular and actors are plural .....

C) CORRECT - Fixes the modifier error and also addresses actors ... whose .... correctly.

D) INCORRECT - has passive voice and is wordy. Another error is modifier, Stella should be placed in the beginging of the sentence.

E) INCORRECT - This has no verb. If you notice there is a COMMA after Stella, which makes this sentence a fragment - "Stella Adler, trained several generations of actors whose ranks included "
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by Brian@VeritasPrep » Mon Aug 09, 2010 2:47 pm

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Hey guys,

Good questions about A, which looks like a great answer, but:

The modifying phrase beginning with "who" must modify a person. "Who" is a reflexive pronoun, and the rule for using it is pretty simple...it has to modify the word that comes directly next to it. Because it comes next to "theater", it's incorrect.

Choice C changes it by using the participial modifier "training" - those present-tense verb modifiers ("participial phrases", but you don't really need to know the terminology) can modify the entire clause beforehand and not just the direct word, so that's why that one is different.

For C, "whose ranks" may sound a bit awkward, but it's not a direct violation of any hard-and-fast rule. The GMAT loves to do this - get you to eliminate based on "awkwardness" or "it changed the meaning a little bit", but your job is only grammatical/logical correctness.
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by josemaus » Mon Aug 09, 2010 5:42 pm

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The question can be found in 12th Edition OG, in the Diagnostic Test Section, question #49

Brian - could you go over why B is not the ideal answer? See my thought process in original posting. Thank you
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by kvcpk » Mon Aug 09, 2010 8:45 pm

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Brian@VeritasPrep wrote:Hey guys,

Good questions about A, which looks like a great answer, but:

The modifying phrase beginning with "who" must modify a person. "Who" is a reflexive pronoun, and the rule for using it is pretty simple...it has to modify the word that comes directly next to it. Because it comes next to "theater", it's incorrect.
I understand this rule about ",which". But, Didnt know that "who" behaves the same. I remember seeing an example in which "who" did not behave this way. I will post it if i can find it.
Can you confirm this rule about "whose"?

Thanks for your help Brian.
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by clammiestqasar » Tue Aug 10, 2010 7:22 am

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IMO its C
The ing form works best when u have to discuss the result of the main clause.When the main clause acts as a subject of the ing Verb we can use present participle instead of who and which forms.
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by Brian@VeritasPrep » Tue Aug 10, 2010 8:27 am

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Hey Jose,

Good question on B. B is incorrect for one of my favorite reasons - it's illogical. The GMAT has evolved to include more of these logic/accuracy errors (instead of adding new grammatical categories as it adds difficulties), and your job here is to check to see if the sentence actually makes sense.

"actors who include" would indicate that the actors themselves have Marlon Brando and Robert DeNiro. But the actors are Brando and DeNiro - they don't possess them.

This kind of comes back to kvcpk's point - "who" is a reflexive pronoun and, when used as a modifier, has to modify the noun adjacent to it. That means that the phrase "who include" has to directly modify "actors", and since the actors don't "include" Brando/DeNiro as an active verb, it's an illogical statement.
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by kvcpk » Tue Aug 10, 2010 8:51 am

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Brian@VeritasPrep wrote:Hey Jose,

Good question on B. B is incorrect for one of my favorite reasons - it's illogical. The GMAT has evolved to include more of these logic/accuracy errors (instead of adding new grammatical categories as it adds difficulties), and your job here is to check to see if the sentence actually makes sense.

"actors who include" would indicate that the actors themselves have Marlon Brando and Robert DeNiro. But the actors are Brando and DeNiro - they don't possess them.

This kind of comes back to kvcpk's point - "who" is a reflexive pronoun and, when used as a modifier, has to modify the noun adjacent to it. That means that the phrase "who include" has to directly modify "actors", and since the actors don't "include" Brando/DeNiro as an active verb, it's an illogical statement.
Thanks Brian. Does "whose" also behave the same way?
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by ansh.kumar » Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:29 am

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one more error in "B"
"B" IS A SENTENCE FRAGMENT.u can see its like a complete "MODIFIER" sentence. IT DOESN.T HAS " VERB" TO CONNECT TO CONNECT THE SENTENCE WITH LATER PART.
"C" HAS A VERB "WAS" to correct this error.
thnks
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by pnk » Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:54 am

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Brian@VeritasPrep wrote: the phrase "who include" has to directly modify "actors", and since the actors don't "include" Brando/DeNiro as an active verb, it's an illogical statement.
Hi Brain,

Could you elaborate this part bit more. I could not understand what you mean by 'Brando/DeNiro as an active verb'.

Thanks
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by paes » Tue Aug 10, 2010 11:15 am

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Brian@VeritasPrep wrote:Hey Jose,

Good question on B. B is incorrect for one of my favorite reasons - it's illogical. The GMAT has evolved to include more of these logic/accuracy errors (instead of adding new grammatical categories as it adds difficulties), and your job here is to check to see if the sentence actually makes sense.

"actors who include" would indicate that the actors themselves have Marlon Brando and Robert DeNiro. But the actors are Brando and DeNiro - they don't possess them.

This kind of comes back to kvcpk's point - "who" is a reflexive pronoun and, when used
as a modifier, has to modify the noun adjacent to it. That means that the phrase "who include" has to directly modify "actors", and since the actors don't "include" Brando/DeNiro as an active verb, it's an illogical statement.
Brian,

I have seen some examples, from OG only, where who is not modifying to the adjecent noun.
Is there are general rule, when it can or when it can't modify a noun - not adjacent yo it.
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