As an actress and, more importantly, as a teacher of acting, Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, who trained several generations of actors including Marlon Brando and Robert de Niro.
A. Same as above
B. Stella Adler, one of the most influential artists in the American theater, trained several generations of actors who include
C. Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, training several generations of actors whose ranks included
D. one of the most influential artists in the American theater was Stella Adler, who trained several generations of actors including
E. one of the most influential artists in the American theater, Stella Adler, trained several generations of actors whose ranks included
OA: C
Hi, guys, try this question plz, which is from OG12 dianostic test Q49.
Stucked with B and C, and wrongly chose B..
Can someone explain why B is wrong, and what does "whose ranks" mean?
Thanks very much!
As an actress and, more importantly...OG12 dianostic Q49
- bubbliiiiiiii
- Legendary Member
- Posts: 979
- Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2009 1:38 am
- Location: Hyderabad, India
- Thanked: 49 times
- Followed by:12 members
- GMAT Score:700
I guessed the underlined part from options and updated the question as under,
2. The possesive pronoun 'whose' correctly modifies noun 'actors' and describes them.
Hope it helps.
rx_11 wrote:As an actress and, more importantly, as a teacher of acting, Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, who trained several generations of actors including Marlon Brando and Robert de Niro.
A. Same as above
B. Stella Adler, one of the most influential artists in the American theater, trained several generations of actors who include
C. Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, training several generations of actors whose ranks included
D. one of the most influential artists in the American theater was Stella Adler, who trained several generations of actors including
E. one of the most influential artists in the American theater, Stella Adler, trained several generations of actors whose ranks included
Can someone explain why B is wrong, and what does "whose ranks" mean?
Thanks very much!
The usage of 'who' is unclear here. In my perception 'who' is erroneously trying to modify actors.B. Stella Adler, one of the most influential artists in the American theater, trained several generations of actors who include
1. Here the verb training is correctly attached to subject 'Stella Adler'.C. Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, training several generations of actors whose ranks included
2. The possesive pronoun 'whose' correctly modifies noun 'actors' and describes them.
Hope it helps.
Regards,
Pranay
Pranay
-
- Legendary Member
- Posts: 1112
- Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 11:16 am
- Thanked: 77 times
- Followed by:49 members
Hey guys,
i hope you people followed this link...
This is an OG 12 D-49 question....and the explanation of this question given by OG has shaken my concept.
I used to think that
COMMA + PARTICIPIAL (Present/ Past)...modify the whole preceding clause (sub + verb)
But if there is NO COMMA then the Participial will modify the preceding noun only...but OG explanation surprised me...
The explanation for Op A, given by OG is:
This Op choice has two flaws..
1) error in the place of WHO...agreed....no probs
2) including modifies the whole phrase, but the two actors named are not generations of actors..
Here m totally confused, because that means,
COMMA + PRESENT PARTICIPIAL
and, Only PRESENT PARTICIPIAL (without comma)
i though that the second one only modify NOUN but OG said something else......totally confused...
I have no problem with the OA and by applying POE i pick Op C only but the explanation m not able to digest...what if i put an Op F
Op F) Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, training several generations of actors including Marlon Brando and Robert de Niro.
According to OG this gonna be wrong because including will modify generations of actors not the actors itself....
Ron's post:-- recent discussions
Please help regarding this modifier issue
i hope you people followed this link...
This is an OG 12 D-49 question....and the explanation of this question given by OG has shaken my concept.
I used to think that
COMMA + PARTICIPIAL (Present/ Past)...modify the whole preceding clause (sub + verb)
But if there is NO COMMA then the Participial will modify the preceding noun only...but OG explanation surprised me...
The explanation for Op A, given by OG is:
This Op choice has two flaws..
1) error in the place of WHO...agreed....no probs
2) including modifies the whole phrase, but the two actors named are not generations of actors..
Here m totally confused, because that means,
COMMA + PRESENT PARTICIPIAL
and, Only PRESENT PARTICIPIAL (without comma)
i though that the second one only modify NOUN but OG said something else......totally confused...
I have no problem with the OA and by applying POE i pick Op C only but the explanation m not able to digest...what if i put an Op F
Op F) Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, training several generations of actors including Marlon Brando and Robert de Niro.
According to OG this gonna be wrong because including will modify generations of actors not the actors itself....
Ron's post:-- recent discussions
LINK:- https://www.beatthegmat.com/sc-t80992-15.html#358647if a participial modifier is NOT set off by commas, then it must modify a noun.
Please help regarding this modifier issue
-
- Legendary Member
- Posts: 586
- Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:38 am
- Thanked: 31 times
- Followed by:5 members
- GMAT Score:730
Atul,
I cant clear your doubt but im sure you can help me out wth mine
for op A oG says, who shud be near to the noun it modifies (here Stella), but why?
doesnt the who in op A clealry refer to Stella? it cant refer theater as its not a person. why is who ambiguous here?
one thing abt comma+including(courtesy study hall wth Ron) - it modifies the noun before it (unlike other comma+ing modifiers which modify the entre clause before it)- not relevant here though as we do not have a comma. not sure how diff this one is.
I cant clear your doubt but im sure you can help me out wth mine
for op A oG says, who shud be near to the noun it modifies (here Stella), but why?
doesnt the who in op A clealry refer to Stella? it cant refer theater as its not a person. why is who ambiguous here?
one thing abt comma+including(courtesy study hall wth Ron) - it modifies the noun before it (unlike other comma+ing modifiers which modify the entre clause before it)- not relevant here though as we do not have a comma. not sure how diff this one is.
-
- Legendary Member
- Posts: 1574
- Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:52 am
- Thanked: 88 times
- Followed by:13 members
Hi rohu,
"who" in option A is ambiguous as it can refer to the "artists" also.........please read the option A once more carefully..........
"who" in option A is ambiguous as it can refer to the "artists" also.........please read the option A once more carefully..........
-
- Legendary Member
- Posts: 586
- Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:38 am
- Thanked: 31 times
- Followed by:5 members
- GMAT Score:730
ya bu thtn i thought Stella comes before who so makes for a good antecendent, anyways, there are bigger issues to deal with in this sentence i guess.aspirant2011 wrote:Hi rohu,
"who" in option A is ambiguous as it can refer to the "artists" also.........please read the option A once more carefully..........
- GMATGuruNY
- GMAT Instructor
- Posts: 15539
- Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 12:04 pm
- Location: New York, NY
- Thanked: 13060 times
- Followed by:1906 members
- GMAT Score:790
Look for easy reasons to eliminate answers.As an Actress and, more importantly, as a teacher of acting, Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, who trained several generations of actors including Marlon Brando and Robert Deniro.
a.Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, who trained several generations of actors including
b. Stella Adler, one of the most influential artists in the American theater, trained several generations of actors who include
c. Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, training several generations of actors, whose ranks included
d. One of the most influential artist in the American theater was Stella Adler, who trained several generations of actors including
e. One of the most influential artist in the American theater, Stella Adler, trained several generations of actors whose ranks included
In D and E, as an actress and as a teacher are incorrectly modifying one. Eliminate D and E.
In A, who is incorrectly modifying artists. The intended meaning is that Stella Adler trained several generations of actors. Eliminate A.
In B, include should not be in the present tense, given that the main verb trained is in the past tense. All the verbs should be in the same tense unless a change in tense is necessary. Eliminate B.
The correct answer is C.
Private tutor exclusively for the GMAT and GRE, with over 20 years of experience.
Followed here and elsewhere by over 1900 test-takers.
I have worked with students based in the US, Australia, Taiwan, China, Tajikistan, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia -- a long list of countries.
My students have been admitted to HBS, CBS, Tuck, Yale, Stern, Fuqua -- a long list of top programs.
As a tutor, I don't simply teach you how I would approach problems.
I unlock the best way for YOU to solve problems.
For more information, please email me (Mitch Hunt) at [email protected].
Student Review #1
Student Review #2
Student Review #3
Followed here and elsewhere by over 1900 test-takers.
I have worked with students based in the US, Australia, Taiwan, China, Tajikistan, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia -- a long list of countries.
My students have been admitted to HBS, CBS, Tuck, Yale, Stern, Fuqua -- a long list of top programs.
As a tutor, I don't simply teach you how I would approach problems.
I unlock the best way for YOU to solve problems.
For more information, please email me (Mitch Hunt) at [email protected].
Student Review #1
Student Review #2
Student Review #3
-
- Legendary Member
- Posts: 1112
- Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 11:16 am
- Thanked: 77 times
- Followed by:49 members
Hi Mitch,
Thanks a lot for the post and it really helped. I like your technique of eliminating the wrong ones...but please resolve the conceptual mystery of using
PRESENT PARTICIPIAL (without comma) ====>> what is the general rule??
The word including in Op A and Op D is modifying "generations of actors" or only "actors"???
Second, if including is modifying only "actors", then what about this Op F, is this gonna be correct???
Op F) Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, training several generations of actors including Marlon Brando and Robert de Niro.
Thanks a lot
Atul
Thanks a lot for the post and it really helped. I like your technique of eliminating the wrong ones...but please resolve the conceptual mystery of using
PRESENT PARTICIPIAL (without comma) ====>> what is the general rule??
The word including in Op A and Op D is modifying "generations of actors" or only "actors"???
Second, if including is modifying only "actors", then what about this Op F, is this gonna be correct???
Op F) Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, training several generations of actors including Marlon Brando and Robert de Niro.
Thanks a lot
Atul
-
- Legendary Member
- Posts: 1112
- Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 11:16 am
- Thanked: 77 times
- Followed by:49 members
Thanks Rohu,rohu27 wrote:Atul,
I cant clear your doubt but im sure you can help me out wth mine
for op A oG says, who shud be near to the noun it modifies (here Stella), but why?
doesnt the who in op A clealry refer to Stella? it cant refer theater as its not a person. why is who ambiguous here?
one thing abt comma+including(courtesy study hall wth Ron) - it modifies the noun before it (unlike other comma+ing modifiers which modify the entre clause before it)- not relevant here though as we do not have a comma. not sure how diff this one is.
I appreciate your help. I'm surprised to see the rule
God, this is painful , so many exceptions...i think we can't master all these things...i guess Mitch approach is correct...learn the basics and apply elimination of the wrong ones technique...comma+including(courtesy study hall wth Ron) - it modifies the noun before it (unlike other comma+ing modifiers which modify the entre clause before it)
But even if i apply that technique in that case m gonna rule out that option where COMMA + INCLUDING modifying the preceding noun
One more thing, did Ron mention any example from OG where this exception is applied...why i'm asking is to get a better understanding + i check if there is any other approach to solve that question if someone doesn't know about this exception..
And i think Mitch already cleared your doubt, if actors would'nt be there, that WHO is perfect..two logical antecedents making WHO ambiguous.
Thanks a lot for the rule
-
- Legendary Member
- Posts: 586
- Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:38 am
- Thanked: 31 times
- Followed by:5 members
- GMAT Score:730
I totally agree with you Atul. We shud look to eliminate options with the basic rules first, but i observed at times it is not possible. some new idiom or some new grammar rule comes into effect.
anywyas, watch the sept 23rd study hall for the including rule, it is very helpful, watch the second half. Ron said it is used in many gmat prep problems too (he also cites a few og sources in the study hall)
https://www.manhattangmat.com/thursdays-with-ron.cfm
anywyas, watch the sept 23rd study hall for the including rule, it is very helpful, watch the second half. Ron said it is used in many gmat prep problems too (he also cites a few og sources in the study hall)
https://www.manhattangmat.com/thursdays-with-ron.cfm
-
- Legendary Member
- Posts: 586
- Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:38 am
- Thanked: 31 times
- Followed by:5 members
- GMAT Score:730
[/quote]Look for easy reasons to eliminate answers.
In D and E, as an actress and as a teacher are incorrectly modifying one. Eliminate D and E.
In A, who is incorrectly modifying artists. The intended meaning is that Stella Adler trained several generations of actors. Eliminate A.
In B, include should not be in the present tense, given that the main verb trained is in the past tense. All the verbs should be in the same tense unless a change in tense is necessary. Eliminate B.
The correct answer is C.
thnaks Mitch, the explanation was to the point and just wht is needed on an exam day. love ur approaches.
-
- Legendary Member
- Posts: 2330
- Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 5:14 am
- Thanked: 56 times
- Followed by:26 members
Hi GmatGuruNy,I have a doubt regarding Option C,the -ing modifier after a comma modifies the subject of the preceding clause as well as the entire preceding clause .GMATGuruNY wrote:Look for easy reasons to eliminate answers.As an Actress and, more importantly, as a teacher of acting, Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, who trained several generations of actors including Marlon Brando and Robert Deniro.
a.Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, who trained several generations of actors including
b. Stella Adler, one of the most influential artists in the American theater, trained several generations of actors who include
c. Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, training several generations of actors, whose ranks included
d. One of the most influential artist in the American theater was Stella Adler, who trained several generations of actors including
e. One of the most influential artist in the American theater, Stella Adler, trained several generations of actors whose ranks included
In D and E, as an actress and as a teacher are incorrectly modifying one. Eliminate D and E.
In A, who is incorrectly modifying artists. The intended meaning is that Stella Adler trained several generations of actors. Eliminate A.
In B, include should not be in the present tense, given that the main verb trained is in the past tense. All the verbs should be in the same tense unless a change in tense is necessary. Eliminate B.
The correct answer is C.
So C seems to be saying that "training several generations of actors" is the reason Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater,which sounds absurd .
In A, who is incorrectly modifying artists. The intended meaning is that Stella Adler trained several generations of actors. Eliminate A.C)Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, training several generations of actors
But who is close to "theater ".Isnt who referring to theater ? How come who is referring to Artists ?
Since you highlighted the tense issue with B. Doesnt "including " in A refer to a change in tense.including seems to be in present tense whereas the main verb is past.
a.Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, who trained several generations of actors including
I Seek Explanations Not Answers
- chendawg
- Master | Next Rank: 500 Posts
- Posts: 163
- Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:56 am
- Location: Philadelphia
- Thanked: 13 times
- Followed by:4 members
- GMAT Score:660
Edit - Misread your option F. I think it'd be incorrect because it's talking about generations in general and not the actors.atulmangal wrote:if including is modifying only "actors", then what about this Op F, is this gonna be correct???
Op F) Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, training several generations of actors including Marlon Brando and Robert de Niro.
Thanks a lot
Atul
The reason option B is incorrect (in addition to the tense error-include is present tense and trained is past) is because of the word "who" before include. Because who must modify "actors", the sentence doesn't make sense. The sentence would mean that Stella Adler trained several generations of actors that literally "owned" Marlon Brando and Robert De Niro.
I'm not bipolar...I'm bi-winning!!