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As an actress and, more importantly...OG12 dianostic Q49

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As an actress and, more importantly...OG12 dianostic Q49

by rx_11 » Fri Apr 22, 2011 1:12 am
As an actress and, more importantly, as a teacher of acting, Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, who trained several generations of actors including Marlon Brando and Robert de Niro.

A. Same as above
B. Stella Adler, one of the most influential artists in the American theater, trained several generations of actors who include
C. Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, training several generations of actors whose ranks included
D. one of the most influential artists in the American theater was Stella Adler, who trained several generations of actors including
E. one of the most influential artists in the American theater, Stella Adler, trained several generations of actors whose ranks included







OA: C

Hi, guys, try this question plz, which is from OG12 dianostic test Q49.

Stucked with B and C, and wrongly chose B..

Can someone explain why B is wrong, and what does "whose ranks" mean?

Thanks very much!
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by bubbliiiiiiii » Fri Apr 22, 2011 1:23 am
I guessed the underlined part from options and updated the question as under,
rx_11 wrote:As an actress and, more importantly, as a teacher of acting, Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, who trained several generations of actors including Marlon Brando and Robert de Niro.

A. Same as above
B. Stella Adler, one of the most influential artists in the American theater, trained several generations of actors who include
C. Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, training several generations of actors whose ranks included
D. one of the most influential artists in the American theater was Stella Adler, who trained several generations of actors including
E. one of the most influential artists in the American theater, Stella Adler, trained several generations of actors whose ranks included

Can someone explain why B is wrong, and what does "whose ranks" mean?

Thanks very much!
B. Stella Adler, one of the most influential artists in the American theater, trained several generations of actors who include
The usage of 'who' is unclear here. In my perception 'who' is erroneously trying to modify actors.
C. Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, training several generations of actors whose ranks included
1. Here the verb training is correctly attached to subject 'Stella Adler'.
2. The possesive pronoun 'whose' correctly modifies noun 'actors' and describes them.

Hope it helps.
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by jaymw » Fri Apr 22, 2011 4:24 am
The main problem with answer choice B is that the actors themselves cannot include anyone. It is rather the actors' ranks that include Brando and De Niro.
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by atulmangal » Fri Apr 22, 2011 6:28 am
Hey guys,

i hope you people followed this link...

This is an OG 12 D-49 question....and the explanation of this question given by OG has shaken my concept.

I used to think that

COMMA + PARTICIPIAL (Present/ Past)...modify the whole preceding clause (sub + verb)

But if there is NO COMMA then the Participial will modify the preceding noun only...but OG explanation surprised me...

The explanation for Op A, given by OG is:

This Op choice has two flaws..

1) error in the place of WHO...agreed....no probs

2) including modifies the whole phrase, but the two actors named are not generations of actors..

Here m totally confused, because that means,

COMMA + PRESENT PARTICIPIAL

and, Only PRESENT PARTICIPIAL (without comma)

i though that the second one only modify NOUN but OG said something else......totally confused...

I have no problem with the OA and by applying POE i pick Op C only but the explanation m not able to digest...what if i put an Op F

Op F) Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, training several generations of actors including Marlon Brando and Robert de Niro.

According to OG this gonna be wrong because including will modify generations of actors not the actors itself....

Ron's post:-- recent discussions
if a participial modifier is NOT set off by commas, then it must modify a noun.
LINK:- https://www.beatthegmat.com/sc-t80992-15.html#358647

Please help regarding this modifier issue
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by rohu27 » Fri Apr 22, 2011 9:56 am
Atul,
I cant clear your doubt but im sure you can help me out wth mine :D

for op A oG says, who shud be near to the noun it modifies (here Stella), but why?
doesnt the who in op A clealry refer to Stella? it cant refer theater as its not a person. why is who ambiguous here?

one thing abt comma+including(courtesy study hall wth Ron) - it modifies the noun before it (unlike other comma+ing modifiers which modify the entre clause before it)- not relevant here though as we do not have a comma. not sure how diff this one is.
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by aspirant2011 » Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:09 am
Hi rohu,

"who" in option A is ambiguous as it can refer to the "artists" also.........please read the option A once more carefully..........
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by raunekk » Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:26 am
Strange...there is no way I would have gone with C...

IF C is correct.. what is the problem with option E... ??
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by rohu27 » Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:41 am
aspirant2011 wrote:Hi rohu,

"who" in option A is ambiguous as it can refer to the "artists" also.........please read the option A once more carefully..........
ya bu thtn i thought Stella comes before who so makes for a good antecendent, anyways, there are bigger issues to deal with in this sentence i guess.
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by GMATGuruNY » Fri Apr 22, 2011 1:52 pm
As an Actress and, more importantly, as a teacher of acting, Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, who trained several generations of actors including Marlon Brando and Robert Deniro.

a.Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, who trained several generations of actors including

b. Stella Adler, one of the most influential artists in the American theater, trained several generations of actors who include

c. Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, training several generations of actors, whose ranks included

d. One of the most influential artist in the American theater was Stella Adler, who trained several generations of actors including

e. One of the most influential artist in the American theater, Stella Adler, trained several generations of actors whose ranks included
Look for easy reasons to eliminate answers.

In D and E, as an actress and as a teacher are incorrectly modifying one. Eliminate D and E.

In A, who is incorrectly modifying artists. The intended meaning is that Stella Adler trained several generations of actors. Eliminate A.

In B, include should not be in the present tense, given that the main verb trained is in the past tense. All the verbs should be in the same tense unless a change in tense is necessary. Eliminate B.

The correct answer is C.
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by atulmangal » Fri Apr 22, 2011 3:38 pm
Hi Mitch,

Thanks a lot for the post and it really helped. I like your technique of eliminating the wrong ones...but please resolve the conceptual mystery of using

PRESENT PARTICIPIAL (without comma) ====>> what is the general rule??

The word including in Op A and Op D is modifying "generations of actors" or only "actors"???

Second, if including is modifying only "actors", then what about this Op F, is this gonna be correct???

Op F) Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, training several generations of actors including Marlon Brando and Robert de Niro.

Thanks a lot
Atul
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by atulmangal » Fri Apr 22, 2011 5:52 pm
rohu27 wrote:Atul,
I cant clear your doubt but im sure you can help me out wth mine :D

for op A oG says, who shud be near to the noun it modifies (here Stella), but why?
doesnt the who in op A clealry refer to Stella? it cant refer theater as its not a person. why is who ambiguous here?

one thing abt comma+including(courtesy study hall wth Ron) - it modifies the noun before it (unlike other comma+ing modifiers which modify the entre clause before it)- not relevant here though as we do not have a comma. not sure how diff this one is.
Thanks Rohu,

I appreciate your help. I'm surprised to see the rule
comma+including(courtesy study hall wth Ron) - it modifies the noun before it (unlike other comma+ing modifiers which modify the entre clause before it)
God, this is painful :( , so many exceptions...i think we can't master all these things...i guess Mitch approach is correct...learn the basics and apply elimination of the wrong ones technique...
But even if i apply that technique in that case m gonna rule out that option where COMMA + INCLUDING modifying the preceding noun :(

One more thing, did Ron mention any example from OG where this exception is applied...why i'm asking is to get a better understanding + i check if there is any other approach to solve that question if someone doesn't know about this exception..

And i think Mitch already cleared your doubt, if actors would'nt be there, that WHO is perfect..two logical antecedents making WHO ambiguous.

Thanks a lot for the rule
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by rohu27 » Fri Apr 22, 2011 6:16 pm
I totally agree with you Atul. We shud look to eliminate options with the basic rules first, but i observed at times it is not possible. some new idiom or some new grammar rule comes into effect.

anywyas, watch the sept 23rd study hall for the including rule, it is very helpful, watch the second half. Ron said it is used in many gmat prep problems too (he also cites a few og sources in the study hall)

https://www.manhattangmat.com/thursdays-with-ron.cfm
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by rohu27 » Fri Apr 22, 2011 6:17 pm
Look for easy reasons to eliminate answers.

In D and E, as an actress and as a teacher are incorrectly modifying one. Eliminate D and E.

In A, who is incorrectly modifying artists. The intended meaning is that Stella Adler trained several generations of actors. Eliminate A.

In B, include should not be in the present tense, given that the main verb trained is in the past tense. All the verbs should be in the same tense unless a change in tense is necessary. Eliminate B.

The correct answer is C.
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thnaks Mitch, the explanation was to the point and just wht is needed on an exam day. love ur approaches.
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by mundasingh123 » Sun Apr 24, 2011 10:26 pm
GMATGuruNY wrote:
As an Actress and, more importantly, as a teacher of acting, Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, who trained several generations of actors including Marlon Brando and Robert Deniro.

a.Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, who trained several generations of actors including

b. Stella Adler, one of the most influential artists in the American theater, trained several generations of actors who include

c. Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, training several generations of actors, whose ranks included

d. One of the most influential artist in the American theater was Stella Adler, who trained several generations of actors including

e. One of the most influential artist in the American theater, Stella Adler, trained several generations of actors whose ranks included
Look for easy reasons to eliminate answers.

In D and E, as an actress and as a teacher are incorrectly modifying one. Eliminate D and E.

In A, who is incorrectly modifying artists. The intended meaning is that Stella Adler trained several generations of actors. Eliminate A.

In B, include should not be in the present tense, given that the main verb trained is in the past tense. All the verbs should be in the same tense unless a change in tense is necessary. Eliminate B.

The correct answer is C.
Hi GmatGuruNy,I have a doubt regarding Option C,the -ing modifier after a comma modifies the subject of the preceding clause as well as the entire preceding clause .
So C seems to be saying that "training several generations of actors" is the reason Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater,which sounds absurd .
C)Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, training several generations of actors
In A, who is incorrectly modifying artists. The intended meaning is that Stella Adler trained several generations of actors. Eliminate A.
But who is close to "theater ".Isnt who referring to theater ? How come who is referring to Artists ?
Since you highlighted the tense issue with B. Doesnt "including " in A refer to a change in tense.including seems to be in present tense whereas the main verb is past.
a.Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, who trained several generations of actors including
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by chendawg » Mon Apr 25, 2011 6:48 pm
atulmangal wrote:if including is modifying only "actors", then what about this Op F, is this gonna be correct???

Op F) Stella Adler was one of the most influential artists in the American theater, training several generations of actors including Marlon Brando and Robert de Niro.

Thanks a lot
Atul
Edit - Misread your option F. I think it'd be incorrect because it's talking about generations in general and not the actors.

The reason option B is incorrect (in addition to the tense error-include is present tense and trained is past) is because of the word "who" before include. Because who must modify "actors", the sentence doesn't make sense. The sentence would mean that Stella Adler trained several generations of actors that literally "owned" Marlon Brando and Robert De Niro.
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