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Any medical test will sometimes fail to detect a condition

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by RBBmba@2014 » Fri Jun 12, 2015 2:57 am
Any medical test will sometimes fail to detect a condition when it is present and indicate that there is one when it is not.

(A) a condition when it is present and indicate that there is one
(B) when a condition is present and indicate that there is one
(C) a condition when it is present and indicate that it is present
(D) when a condition is present and indicate its presence
(E) the presence of a condition when it is there and indicate its presence

OA: C

@ Experts - could you please share your explanation and analysis for this SC. It's an OG Qs.Sort of lost here... Much thanks in advance.
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by GMATGuruNY » Fri Jun 12, 2015 5:52 am
Any medical test will sometimes fail to detect a condition when it is present and indicate that there is one when it is not.

(A) a condition when it is present and indicate that there is one
(B) when a condition is present and indicate that there is one
(C) a condition when it is present and indicate that it is present
(D) when a condition is present and indicate its presence
(E) the presence of a condition when it is there and indicate its presence
In A, both one and it seem to refer to a condition.
The result is a nonsensical meaning:
Any medical test will sometimes indicate that there is ONE CONDITION when A CONDITION is not.
Eliminate A.

B and D distort the meaning by implying that the purpose of a medical test is to detect a MOMENT IN TIME: WHEN a condition is present.
The purpose of a medical test is to detect the CONDITION itself, not WHEN the condition is present.
Eliminate B and D.

In E, the first it could refer to the presence or to a condition.
Since C avoids this issue and is free of errors, eliminate E.

The correct answer is C.

The OA:
Any medical test will sometimes fail to detect a condition when it is present and indicate that it is present when it is not [present].
Here, each instance of it has the same, clear referent: a condition.
Note the use of ELLIPSIS: the word in brackets is omitted, but its presence is clearly understood.
The ellipsis is made clear by the PARALLEL FORMS: that IT IS PRESENT when IT IS NOT [PRESENT].
Only the OA offers these parallel forms at the end of the sentence.
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by RBBmba@2014 » Sat Jun 13, 2015 7:23 am
Hi Mitch - few clarifications required on your above explanation! (PLEASE NOTE that the analysis of OA is clear to me but I'd like to be sure about the reasons for rejecting A)
GMATGuruNY wrote:In A, both one and it seem to refer to a condition.
The result is a nonsensical meaning:
Any medical test will sometimes indicate that there is ONE CONDITION when A CONDITION is not.
WHY the option A can't mean this - Any medical test will sometimes indicate that there is (ONE=)A CONDITION when (it=)A CONDITION is not [present]. Could you please shed some light on where exactly I'm wrong with this interpretation ?

Also, for rejecting A, if we say that usage of there is BIT CONVOLUTED and C is more direct than A on this PARTICULAR aspect, will that reasoning hold good ?
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by GMATGuruNY » Sun Jun 14, 2015 2:19 am
RBBmba@2014 wrote:WHY the option A can't mean this - Any medical test will sometimes indicate that there is (ONE=)A CONDITION when (it=)A CONDITION is not [present]. Could you please shed some light on where exactly I'm wrong with this interpretation ?
PARALLEL FORMS should serve the SAME FUNCTION.
A: Any medical test will sometimes fail to detect a condition WHEN IT IS PRESENT and indicate that there is one WHEN IT IS NOT [PRESENT].
Here, WHEN IT IS PRESENT and WHEN IT IS NOT PRESENT are parallel forms.
As a result, each it should have the SAME REFERENT (a condition).
The result is a nonsensical meaning:
Any medical test will sometimes fail to detect a condition when THE CONDITION is present and indicate that there is one when THE CONDITION is not present.
Also, for rejecting A, if we say that usage of there is BIT CONVOLUTED and C is more direct than A on this PARTICULAR aspect, will that reasoning hold good


This reasoning is valid.
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by RBBmba@2014 » Mon Jun 15, 2015 5:02 am
GMATGuruNY wrote: PARALLEL FORMS should serve the SAME FUNCTION.
Here, WHEN IT IS PRESENT and WHEN IT IS NOT PRESENT are parallel forms.
As a result, each it should have the SAME REFERENT (a condition).
The result is a nonsensical meaning:
Any medical test will sometimes fail to detect a condition when THE CONDITION is present and indicate that there is one when THE CONDITION is not present.
Mitch -Although you've confirmed the OTHER logic for eliminating A, I'd like to know how the above RED PHRASE has nonsensical meaning because as you said earlier each it and one refer to the SAME REFERENT (a condition). So option A stands out as Any medical test will sometimes indicate that there is (ONE=)A CONDITION when (it=)A CONDITION is not [present]. How this could be wrong grammatically ? (But YES, it's definitely MORE CONVOLUTED and less CONCISE than option C as you've confirmed in your immediate above post)

Look forward to your feedback!
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by GMATGuruNY » Tue Jun 16, 2015 4:27 am
RBBmba@2014 wrote: Mitch -Although you've confirmed the OTHER logic for eliminating A, I'd like to know how the above RED PHRASE has nonsensical meaning because as you said earlier each it and one refer to the SAME REFERENT (a condition). So option A stands out as Any medical test will sometimes indicate that there is (ONE=)A CONDITION when (it=)A CONDITION is not [present]. How this could be wrong grammatically ? (But YES, it's definitely MORE CONVOLUTED and less CONCISE than option C as you've confirmed in your immediate above post)

Look forward to your feedback!
In A, it seems to refer to a condition -- the condition discussed in the first clause.
Let's call this condition the FIRST CONDITION.
one serves to refer to a DIFFERENT condition from the first condition.
Conveyed meaning:
Any medical test will sometimes fail to detect a condition when it is present and indicate that there is A DIFFERENT CONDITION when the FIRST CONDITION IS NOT PRESENT.
Whereas the event in red constitutes a clear FAILURE, the event in green seems to constitute a SUCCESS (indicating that a different condition is present when the first condition is not present).
It is nonsensical for and to serve to connect such opposing thoughts.
Last edited by GMATGuruNY on Wed Jun 17, 2015 11:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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by RBBmba@2014 » Wed Jun 17, 2015 10:53 am
GMATGuruNY wrote: one serves to refer to a DIFFERENT condition from the first condition.
Hi GMATGuru - not able to get this STRAIGHT. How (& Why) we're deciding this ?

It'd be great if you could help!
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by GMATGuruNY » Wed Jun 17, 2015 11:09 am
RBBmba@2014 wrote:
GMATGuruNY wrote: one serves to refer to a DIFFERENT condition from the first condition.
Hi GMATGuru - not able to get this STRAIGHT. How (& Why) we're deciding this ?

It'd be great if you could help!
An analogy:
After John ate A COOKIE, Mary ate ONE.
Here, one does not serve to refer to the cookie making its way through John's digestive system.
Rather, it serves to refer to a DIFFERENT COOKIE: the ONE that Mary ate.

The same reasoning holds true for the usage of one in A.
Last edited by GMATGuruNY on Wed Jun 17, 2015 12:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by RBBmba@2014 » Wed Jun 17, 2015 11:40 am
GMATGuruNY wrote:
GMATGuruNY wrote: one serves to refer to a DIFFERENT condition from the first condition.
An analogy:
After John ate A COOKIE, Mary ate ONE.
Here, one does not serve to refer to the cookie making its way through John's digestive system.
Rather it serves to refer to a DIFFERENT COOKIE: the ONE that Mary ate.

The same reasoning holds true for the usage of one in A.
Much thanks GMATGuruNY.

Does ONE always have this sort of usage in GMAT ? If not, what are the OTHER usage of ONE on GMAT ?

Can you please provide a few Official questions in which ONE refers to DIFFERENT ENTITY & questions in which ONE refers to SAME ENTITY ?

Look forward to hear your feedback!
Last edited by RBBmba@2014 on Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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by DavidG@VeritasPrep » Wed Jun 17, 2015 11:57 am
Can you please provide a few Official questions in which ONE refers to DIFFERENT ENTITY & questions in which ONE refers to SAME ENTITY ?
That's a very specific request. Coincidentally, I was just working through the following sentence with a student:

"Constructed at least as early as the Sui dynasty (A.D. 581-618), the Altar of Heaven, the oldest known altar used in Chinese state religious practice, is more than 1,000 years older than a similar ONE in Beijing and is the only altar found so far that predates the Qing dynasty (A.D. 1644-1912)."
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by RBBmba@2014 » Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:40 am
DavidG@VeritasPrep wrote:
Can you please provide a few Official questions in which ONE refers to DIFFERENT ENTITY & questions in which ONE refers to SAME ENTITY ?
That's a very specific request. Coincidentally, I was just working through the following sentence with a student:

"Constructed at least as early as the Sui dynasty (A.D. 581-618), the Altar of Heaven, the oldest known altar used in Chinese state religious practice, is more than 1,000 years older than a similar ONE in Beijing and is the only altar found so far that predates the Qing dynasty (A.D. 1644-1912)."
@ Dave - Thanks for your feedback. BUT in the SC you mentioned above, ONE has not been used as a STANDALONE rather preceded by SIMILAR. So eventually, it(re use of SIMILAR before ONE) makes clear that ONE refers to SAME ENTITY here. So, determining the FUCTION or USAGE of ONE in this sentence is much straightforward, I think. How we could determine the same when ONE is STANDALONE and we're to understand it from the MEANING/CONTEXT ?

Hence, I'd like to know whether you could shed light on my BOTH the above questions with OFFICIAL INSTANCES in which ONE refers to 1) SAME ENTITY and 2) DIFFERENT ENTITY ?

Look forward to hear from you!
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by GMATGuruNY » Fri Jun 19, 2015 6:07 am
RBBmba@2014 wrote: "Constructed at least as early as the Sui dynasty (A.D. 581-618), the Altar of Heaven, the oldest known altar used in Chinese state religious practice, is more than 1,000 years older than a similar ONE in Beijing and is the only altar found so far that predates the Qing dynasty (A.D. 1644-1912)."

in the SC you mentioned above, ONE has not been used as a STANDALONE rather preceded by SIMILAR. So eventually, it(re use of SIMILAR before ONE) makes clear that ONE refers to SAME ENTITY here.
This interpretation is not quite right.
The Altar of Heaven, THE OLDEST KNOWN ALTAR used in Chinese state religious practice, is more than 1,000 years older than A SIMILAR ONE in Beijing.
Here, THE OLDEST KNOWN ALTAR and A SIMILAR ONE are not the SAME altar.
It is not possible for both altars to be the OLDEST.
Clearly, one serves to refer to a DIFFERENT altar from the Altar of Heaven: ONE that can be found in Beijing and is similar to -- but not the same as -- the Altar of Heaven.
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by DavidG@VeritasPrep » Fri Jun 19, 2015 6:21 am
Hence, I'd like to know whether you could shed light on my BOTH the above questions with OFFICIAL INSTANCES in which ONE refers to 1) SAME ENTITY and 2) DIFFERENT ENTITY ?
Consider a couple of simple sentences:

"The car that Dave bought is similar to the ONE that Mitch bought." Clearly, I didn't buy Mitch's car. I bought a different car that happened to have some of the same qualities as Mitch's car.

But if I write, "The car that Dave bought is the ONE he crashed into his garage." Well, this time, "one" refers to the car I just bought, and my wife is not going to be happy with me.
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by RBBmba@2014 » Sat Jun 20, 2015 4:07 am
Thanks Guys for your clarifications.

So,what I understand from BOTH of your replies is that in GMAT, ONE can refer either to DIFFERENT ENTITY or to SAME ENTITY and this can ONLY be determined from the MEANING aspect of the sentence. Right ?

Correct me please if wrong!

Look forward to your confirmation.
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by DavidG@VeritasPrep » Sat Jun 20, 2015 6:06 am
So,what I understand from BOTH of your replies is that in GMAT, ONE can refer either to DIFFERENT ENTITY or to SAME ENTITY and this can ONLY be determined from the MEANING aspect of the sentence. Right ?
That's a very reasonable conclusion.
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