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670 (Q44, V38) - Very Depressed

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670 (Q44, V38) - Very Depressed

by Leonard C » Mon Jan 14, 2008 11:10 pm
Guys,

Just came out of the GMAT with a 670. Am very disappointed, as I had been scoring around 730 to 750 on the MGMAT CATS and GMATPrep. Still kinda shell-shocked actually. I thought I did quite well in the math part (I usually score 48-50, even on MGMAT) but for some reason it looks like I really messed up there. I found verbal pretty tricky too.

I know nerves got the better of me for the most part of the exam, but still, I expected to get around 700-ish. Anyways, a little bit confused right now, let me know what else I should do. Can I see the questions that I answered incorrectly?

Oh well. Time to go out and get a drink. Or two. Or many.

- Leo

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by Prasanna » Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:13 pm
Sorry to hear that. Probably not a good day for you..But still 670 is a good score. More so see it in light of what score your target schools expect. If you need a higher score, you should definitely get back and retake the test.

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re

by stock2007 » Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:23 pm
are u kidding me..

i would die to get a 670 man... who do u think u are, einstein????

mate,.. 670 is hot.. u can probably get into duke, ucla, emory, dare i say even harvard.

look at their 80% range.. 650 to 770..

U FIT IN THAT GROUP


jeez, i got my test soon.. dont scare me.

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Myths and other stuff

by AleksandrM » Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:54 am
While your GMAT score is allegedly a good predictor of how well you will do in the academic program, it is a myth that you need to score in the 90th percentile to get into a top school.

A hot score helps, but it does little for you if you have no extracurricular activies, poor working experience, less than satisfactory reference letters, and next to nothing unique or catchy to say in your essays.

Also, one need not go to the top 10 B-school to get a "dream" job. It is better to get hired with a degree from University of Boston than get fired with a degree from Harvard. Companies are trying to meet a demand for labor, and quality labor comes from many B-schools. If talented people came exclusively from Harvard, MIT, Stanford, among other top schools, then why would top companies recruit at schools that did not make it to the top 100 list?

Also, remember that companies see your B-school degree as complementary to your working experience. I went to a pretty big public university that ranks in the top 100 B-schools and have seen many students get jobs at top firms in various industries. While it is obvious, one should also think about the demand for certain kinds of employees and skills.

Just to show you an example. A friend of mine went to the same university as I did, majoring in political science. His gpa was about 3.40 and his GMAT score was a 650. He worked for a judge, and then at a law firm as some small-scale assistant. He then moved up to a position where he was charged with more responsibilities, eventually training a couple of people to help him out with some of the duties. He worked like this for a little over two years, and then applied to a bunch of schools. I know he applied to at least 4 but the ones that matter are Harvard and UPenn. He applied for a joint MBA/JD. He did not get into Harvard, but he did get into UPenn. I know that his LSAT score was pretty high, so it certainly had something to do with him getting in. However, getting into Wharton is no simple feat. He now works at PWC in the auditing department, but he also gets picked up for some consulting projects. I am sure that if he went to the smaller schools he applied to, he could still end up working in a similar position. Again, it is about more than just your GMAT score.

Just my two cents.

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Re: Myths and other stuff

by TkNeo » Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:14 pm
AleksandrM wrote:Just to show you an example. A friend of mine went to the same university as I did, majoring in political science. His gpa was about 3.40 and his GMAT score was a 650. He worked for a judge, and then at a law firm as some small-scale assistant. He then moved up to a position where he was charged with more responsibilities, eventually training a couple of people to help him out with some of the duties. He worked like this for a little over two years, and then applied to a bunch of schools. I know he applied to at least 4 but the ones that matter are Harvard and UPenn. He applied for a joint MBA/JD. He did not get into Harvard, but he did get into UPenn. I know that his LSAT score was pretty high, so it certainly had something to do with him getting in. However, getting into Wharton is no simple feat. He now works at PWC in the auditing department, but he also gets picked up for some consulting projects. I am sure that if he went to the smaller schools he applied to, he could still end up working in a similar position. Again, it is about more than just your GMAT score.

Just my two cents.
There are certain jobs, for which your resume will be considered only if you are a grad from top 10. I know for sure in the financial service sector.. You might be Einstein but if you are not a grad from top 10 they won't look at your resume.

Although even if you grad from top 10 schools the game is not over. You have to fight through lot of high quality competition . I remember listening to an interview of Citigroup recruiter and he said that they receive 200 applications from top 10 schools for 30 or so jobs they have each year..

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by stock2007 » Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:12 am
if you dont go to a top 10 schools its not the end of the world.

bill gates didnt get an mba
lakshmi mittal didnt get an mba
sheldon adelson didnt get an mba
li kai shang didnt get an mba.

* all of the above.. are some of the richest men in the world today.

dont stress if you dont get into a top 10 schoo.. even if you get into a top 25 schools, your in good hands.. some of the schools in the top 15 to top 30.. have smaller graduating classes.. like 150 students..compared to like 700 + at harvard..

and some recruiters dont wanna take a chance with a 130 grand salary on a fresh recruit.. from a top school, many legit blue chip firms across the fortune 500 will hire a grad from a top 30 b school in the range of 80k plus..

if you wanna work at goldman sachs.. sure, then you need that brand name..

if you wanna start your own firm or your happy at a firm like lets say bank of america or proctor and gamble.. i think u will be fine..

give it your best shot. thats all you can do.

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Re: re

by TkNeo » Fri Jan 18, 2008 3:01 pm
stock2007 wrote:if you dont go to a top 10 schools its not the end of the world.

bill gates didnt get an mba
lakshmi mittal didnt get an mba
sheldon adelson didnt get an mba
li kai shang didnt get an mba.

* all of the above.. are some of the richest men in the world today.

dont stress if you dont get into a top 10 schoo.. even if you get into a top 25 schools, your in good hands.. some of the schools in the top 15 to top 30.. have smaller graduating classes.. like 150 students..compared to like 700 + at harvard..

and some recruiters dont wanna take a chance with a 130 grand salary on a fresh recruit.. from a top school, many legit blue chip firms across the fortune 500 will hire a grad from a top 30 b school in the range of 80k plus..

if you wanna work at goldman sachs.. sure, then you need that brand name..

if you wanna start your own firm or your happy at a firm like lets say bank of america or proctor and gamble.. i think u will be fine..

give it your best shot. thats all you can do.
I agree with what you said 100%.. except the examples you have used. Bill gates and Steve jobs were dropouts. That doesn't mean i should drop out because i can do it like them.. Those are fairly tale stories !

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by stock2007 » Fri Jan 18, 2008 4:40 pm
lol.. ..

yeah i guess bill gates and steve had fairy tale stories...

but hey.. u got to dream.. and maybe your the next fairy tale..

but anyway.. few more days to the gmat..

otherwise im signing up for janitor at stanford,

then u guys can visit me, once u all get into the gsb

im so nervous..

i think im gonna do 2 4 hour tests back to back.. to calm my nerves..

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Re: re

by TkNeo » Fri Jan 18, 2008 9:05 pm
stock2007 wrote: otherwise im signing up for janitor at stanford,
haha!! No man. I am sure you would would do really well. Confidence is the key.

My best wishes !

-Tk


p.s.
when is your test ?

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by stock2007 » Sat Jan 19, 2008 12:04 pm
few days.. buddy.. im on a long.. international flight from cambodia to peru.. right now.. with multiple stop overs..

taking some gmat test on my laptop in shaky plane.. hopefully im ready for test day.. through all the umpteen breakdowns and practice sessions..

the day before the test, i think im gonna do nothin.. just sleep, go swimming.. go for a walk.. visualize myself in the test room..

morning of test day.. i might do a few problems.. im scheduled for the afternoon...

god help me, if i did one good deed in my life.. this is the time to pay me back

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Second Attempt - 770 from 670

by Leonard C » Sat Mar 22, 2008 7:34 am
Guys,

This post is long overdue, but I just want to give everyone on this board my experience as a second-time test taker on the GMAT.

As per below, my first attempt with the GMAT netted me 670 which was way below my scores on the practice tests (I was scoring 740-760 on GMATPrep and Manhattan GMAT). The funny thing is, I actually finished the test thinking that I had done OK - I knew I did not do well enough to get a 750+ score, but I was so sure that I had done well enough for a 700+ score. Needless to say, I was pretty disappointed and was ready to settle for this score. Lucky for me, my CO (who has over a decade of experience with standardized tests) basically ordered me to do the test again, which I did a month later, and managed to get 770 (Q50, V44).

So, what made the difference? I'll tell you right now, it wasn't extra study - I did maybe a little bit more study between the first and second attempt, but not so much that it made a whole lot of difference.

Rather, it is my firm and absolute belief that the GMAT test, with its black box scoring algorithm, is flawed. A few wrong answers in a row, especially on the questions that the GMAT defines as easy, can set your score back 50+ points. Couple this with the fact that there are only approximately 40 quant and 40 verbal questions (hardly a statistically significant number) and what you have is a flawed test where a small bad patch in a row can lead to a disastrous result. This is what I felt happened to me on my first attempt.

My advice to all of you who have done the test once, received a score that you thought was well below your ability, and are now wondering whether you should do the test again, is this: do the test again. It may very well be the case that you made some careless errors in a row, and the scoring algorithm has penalised you too heavily for this, making a recovery almost impossible. The next time you do it however, keep in mind that you should try to avoid guessing or rushing through two questions in a row.

Many of you may have also read the text on the back page of the GMAT score report, which says something like, "you can do the test again, but beware that you may get a lower score, and typically it is uncommon for test takers to improve their score markedly". Reading this nearly convinced me not to do the test a second time, but I'll tell you right now that this is not true - many, many, many people improve their score on their second or third or whatever try. The GMAT just says this because it wants to create the impression that its scores are accurate and that the standard error of the scores are low, when in fact I believe the standard error is actually quite high.

Remember, the GMAT is a flawed and imperfect test. It presumes to gauge your quant and verbal ability with respect to the test taking population on the basis of less than 80 questions - a ridiculous proposition in my view. Don't let a low first score get you down ... and best of luck to all future test-takers!

PS: Numan, if you are reading this, wishing you the very best in your next attempt! Feel free to email me anytime if I can be of help.

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by AGJAMESNEWYORK » Sat Mar 22, 2008 9:24 am
Leonard,

First, congratulations on an awesome score. Your GMAT score will certainly not keep you put of any business school that you may apply to.

I also have a question about the corelation of your real GMAT score with that of MGMAT's. Next Saturday I am schedule to sit my second GMAT attempt. I also used MGMAT CAT's and my scores are as follows:

MGMAT CAT I - 690 (44Q, 39V)
MGMAT CAT II - 680 (43Q, 39V)
MGMAT CAT III - 700 (46Q, 39V)
MGMAT CAT IV - 660 (42Q, 38V)
MGMAT CAT V - 730 (46Q, 44V)
MGMAT CAT VI - 680 (43Q, 39V)

I am not sure how I should interpret these results. My goal is to score 700+; however, based on these results, is that a realistic expectation? What were your MGMAT scores? I looking forward to hearing your thoughts.

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by Leonard C » Sat Mar 22, 2008 9:13 pm
Hey AGJames,

My MGMAT CAT scores were 710, 730, 720, 740, and 730. My quant score was always either 48 or 49, and my verbal score ranged from 40-45.

I believe that the MGMAT CATs (especially the quant section) are harder and longer than the real GMAT, and so your MGMAT CAT score is probably around 30 points lower than what you can score on the GMAT. This is just a very rough estimate however.

It is also my personal view that the MGMAT CATs are not good practice for the real exam. I found the quant questions overly verbose and the calculation time too long, and this gets you into the habit of rushing through questions. This is not the best strategy for the real GMAT, where accuracy is a big factor. The topics tested on the quant CATs are also not, in my view, representative of the topics in the real GMAT. In MGMAT, when you are doing well in quant, you tend to get quite a lot of long combination/permutation type questions, whereas in the real GMAT, I found that you tend to get a lot of number theory type questions.

The MGMAT verbal CATs are not too bad, however I found doing LSAT CRs and RCs much more helpful, as the style of the questions are similar. If you haven't already done so, it might be useful to try the LSAT problems from the BTG Wiki.

Ultimately, the best predictor is the GMATPrep software. My advice here is to do both tests at least twice each. I did each test three times each, ensuring that I would see every question, and more importantly, as I improved each time I did the same test, I would also see more and more of the harder questions.

I really think you have the ability to score 700+, and best of luck to you.

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by Leonard C » Sat Mar 22, 2008 9:28 pm
BTW, I don't mean to put anyone off MGMAT products. I actually have their sentence correction book, and I believe it is the BEST book on SC out there. I've also heard that their book on number theory is good too.

However, I don't think their CATS are very good, and that one may be better off doing the GMATPrep CAT a second time rather than a new MGMAT CAT.

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Same situation 670

by drabblejhu » Tue Dec 02, 2008 11:34 am
Hey, Leonard,
I got a 670 yesterday; not shocked, but still a bit disappointed.
I didn't score as consistently over 700 like you did on the MGMATs, but I thought I made progress in the last week especially; my 2nd of two GMAT Prep scores was 740, and I had been scoring the mid 40s (44 - 47) on Quant both on the MGMAT and GMAT Prep. Is the GMAT Prep just way too easy?

On the real test, I felt like I rushed a few problems early on and kept getting easy Quant problems throughout the test. I don't know what happened to my verbal score (usually above 40).

Anyway, I'm trying to figure out how to score higher on the next test in one month. I was thinking of doing the MGMAT tests, but given your comments, I might do the GMAT prep three times instead. Did you feel like you got all the hard problems and learned a lot from them? What else did you do before your retake? Any CAT tests from other companies you recommend or LSAT books for CR/RC?

Thanks!
J