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700 practice to 550 GMAT casts serious doubt on my V ability

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700 practice to 550 GMAT casts serious doubt on my V ability

by sashish007 » Fri Dec 24, 2010 5:04 am
All -

from the title, you might have realized that i am still immersed into the GMAT fever. i know that this is not the usual motivational 700+ or 99%-tile story that you normally see in the Forums and beat the gmat twitter feeds. yet, i am writing this debrief because i have learned a lot from beat the gmat lately (thanks to eric for this community) and because i want to share how much effort has gone into training and pursuing the right study materials.

first of all, a little about myself: i am from an engineering background and hold a master's degree from an ivy league university in the us. i work in the wireless industry but i am considering a career change. last year in may i decided that i want to go to b-school and thus, started practicing for my gmat.

my 1st gmat practice score was 260!

i was disappointed, unprepared and in a very disturbed state of mind. so i took a kaplan class to learn the strategies. my math score shot to 49, while verbal was very weak since 'm a non-native speaker. i lost touch with studies and then got back again in october (had to take another kaplan class). after few practice tests i took my 1st gmat:

[october 2009]
Kaplan 1 650 V24 Q50
Kaplan 2 680 V25 Q53
Kaplan 3 700 V27 Q55 (Only 1 math question wrong out of 37)
04 nov 2009 GMAT1 590 V23 Q48 AWA5.0

i was very disappointed and thought kaplan's tests are skewed, so reverted to mgmat. i bought their entire verbal set of SC, CR, and RC along with practice cats. i went to mgmat center in new york several times to practice by myself and following is what i scored:

[dec 2009]
Mgmat1 430 V09 Q49 -- 1st time always low whenever i pick up studies
Mgmat2 610 V27 Q49
Mgmat3 650 V32 Q48
Mgmat4 600 V26 Q47
Mgmat5 600 V29 Q45

i was unhappy and eventually decided to take private tutoring to learn strategies in person. however, this wasn't much help. i probably should have taken an mgmat class instead and learned from other students as well in addition to the instructor's teachings. i also started reading WSJ and NYT regularly but my engineering job was so much of software and coding, these words of english were nerve-cracking. following were the scores during that period:

[march 2010]
Mgmat1 420 V12 Q38 -- 1st time always low whenever i pick up studies
Mgmat2 560 V24 Q43
Mgmat3 520 V22 Q40
Mgmat4 630 V32 Q44

finally, i thought enough was enough and decided to take a break from work to cross 700. i left my job in aug and seriously decided to pursue the gmat beast. apart from this i also had other problems i needed to take care of. reading is my fatal weakness i can read words super fast but phrases (collection of words) burned me out and knocked me down. it takes me few seconds to comprehend every sentence i read so i waited after every sentence to take a moment and realize what it meant. slowly i got better. i started reading stuff on nytimes.com, national geographic, and history.com very regularly and typing them out to familiarize myself with standard idioms and structure.

[november 2010]
14 nov 2010 Mgmat5 530 V21 Q43 -- 1st time always low whenever i pick up studies

with 530 i was upset that even after 3 months, i couldn't score better. so i started following beat the gmat very very closely. i made summary notes from mgmat sc, cr, and rc. i saw all videos of Ron Purewal (lunarpower) about rc, timing, and awas. and i also got the following study material:

powerscore cr

what i hated was changing approaches from kaplan - to - mgmat - to - powerscore - to - ron's strategies and - to - some of stacey koprince's. but in the end i got a mix of all and settled with that. following is what happened as a result:

(also note, from these tests onwards i was able to complete both quant and verbal sections unlike before, thanks to Ron's timing strategies i learnt)
24 nov 2010 Mgmat6 670 V33 Q48
02 dec 2010 Mgmat1 640 V32 Q47
10 dec 2010 Gprep2 660 V32 Q49
13 dec 2010 Gprep1 690 V35 Q49
17 dec 2010 Mgmat2 680 V35 Q47
19 dec 2010 Gprep2 700 V38 Q48
22 dec 2010 Gprep1 690 V34 Q49
24 dec 2010 GMAT2 550 V19 Q48

my AWA was great, i always exceed 400 words now after improved typing and on the gmat2 i believe may have gone 500+ on each essay.

but as of now, mystery surrounds as to what happened today as i don't completely recall .
one hypothesis is that i panick during the verbal sections.
appreciate what you infer from the data above since i have burned lot of money in test prep and materials already!

thanks a zillion!
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by humblebee » Fri Dec 24, 2010 6:05 am
To be honest your english sounds quite good so I'm surprised you're struggling with the verbal. But it's obvious it's the key section holding you back.

You seem to be incredibly self aware in that you know your key weakness i.e understanding what you read quickly. This will improve with time and practice. This is unfortunately probably also the only thing holding you back. If you're reading a passage over and over again, you're eating up a lot of time. Are you taking notes along the way? Especiall for RC? I found that helped me comprehend what I was reading after basically 1 read.

You might consider investing in private tutoring - perhaps they can help you focus on your key problem areas and suggest a few techniques for you to try. It sounds like you've exhausted the major avenues of self study. I probably recommend a MGMAT tutor. Try and ask for Ron if you can.
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by sashish007 » Fri Dec 24, 2010 7:33 am
humblebee wrote:To be honest your english sounds quite good so I'm surprised you're struggling with the verbal. But it's obvious it's the key section holding you back.

You seem to be incredibly self aware in that you know your key weakness i.e understanding what you read quickly. This will improve with time and practice. This is unfortunately probably also the only thing holding you back. If you're reading a passage over and over again, you're eating up a lot of time. Are you taking notes along the way? Especiall for RC? I found that helped me comprehend what I was reading after basically 1 read.

You might consider investing in private tutoring - perhaps they can help you focus on your key problem areas and suggest a few techniques for you to try. It sounds like you've exhausted the major avenues of self study. I probably recommend a MGMAT tutor. Try and ask for Ron if you can.
@humblebee - Thanks! Yes, it is true that my english is decent enough but only when writing and listening. Reading (and re-reading) kills me or just spikes my anxiety - the only passages i can read well are natural sciences and technology-related. History and social sciences are nightmares for me.

And because of my quant skills, I can analyze problems, come up with possible solutions, and implement them quite successfully. But like a dentist can't do his own root canal, I can't do mine either!

I do take notes and that's the only way i can survive an RC passage. But CR kills me more than RC. I did take private tutoring with mgmat in new york ($1000 burned!!!!) and didn't help much. Since 'm outside the states, not sure if they have virtual tutoring, would you know?
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by humblebee » Fri Dec 24, 2010 7:55 am
sashish007 wrote:
I do take notes and that's the only way i can survive an RC passage. But CR kills me more than RC. I did take private tutoring with mgmat in new york ($1000 burned!!!!) and didn't help much. Since 'm outside the states, not sure if they have virtual tutoring, would you know?
MGMAT uses elluminate so it doesn't matter where around the world you are, your tutor interacts with you via that.

But given that you've already burned $1k with them (was it all on CR???), i really don't know what advice to give you. Learning and really understanding English isn't something you can do in a short space of time....
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by sashish007 » Fri Dec 24, 2010 9:01 am
Yes, it was mostly CR, and a little RC.

I realized that and thus, I studied for consecutive 3.5 months (leaving my job) just to improve my SC and verbal. And after than, i got at most, in both MGMAT cats and Gprep interspersed in my prep (this removes test bias),
-1-2 SC incorrect
-4-5 CR incorrect
-2-4 RC incorrect

It is believed that MGMAT tests are slightly harder than Gprep. A drop from V38 to V19 is alarming to me. I am starting to doubt my official Verbal scores now and plan to give another practice test tomorrow morning to confirm. If the scoring pattern from practice tests repeats, I will dispute my score something like this guy did over here:
https://www.beatthegmat.com/i-dispute-my ... 29-60.html
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by humblebee » Fri Dec 24, 2010 2:28 pm
Maybe sit it again for the 3rd time (the official one), and book in a 4th session too treating the 3rd as a test to see if you can luck out.

I did this and scored really high on the 3rd one because 1.) i didn't care about the score (psychological so no stress) and 2.) i got really lucky and got RC that were business and social history - no natural science (my weakness). See my first post ever on this forum - my scores jumped around like yours.

Your quant is really consistent, it's just your verbal that jumps around. By all accounts, you should be scoring in the 30's for verbal!! Maybe it is this pressure in your mind of knowing you aren't great at in?
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by sashish007 » Sat Dec 25, 2010 12:13 pm
humblebee wrote:Maybe sit it again for the 3rd time (the official one), and book in a 4th session too treating the 3rd as a test to see if you can luck out.
what sucks now is that i cannot take another test until after 31 calendar days:
https://www.mba.com/mba/thegmat/schedule ... hetest.htm
this means two gmat exams will have to be 31 calendar days apart which means i will have to kiss my r3 applications goodbye (i have kissed r2 already)!

anyhow, I called the GMAC and the supervisor said i have to wait at least 20 days until my actual score report arrives and after that i will have to speak with a program coordinator who will provide me with something called as an 'item challenge' form where i can challenge a question i felt i answered correctly in the verbal (one form per question). i told her this is stupid because:

a. i cant remember every question and relevant answer choice(s) on the verbal section
b. even if a. was true, i can't tell for which answer my score was deducted (unlike paper-based college exams) and that i could only dispute a section and/or total score
Your quant is really consistent, it's just your verbal that jumps around. By all accounts, you should be scoring in the 30's for verbal!! Maybe it is this pressure in your mind of knowing you aren't great at in?
thanks, man - 've done 55 on Kaplan once (don't know how) but 'm focusing my energies on verbal and don't care if Q is 48.

the bottomline - my Christmas is ruined, i will do a practice test tomo to find out if i can freak out in Verbal, followed by reading your post (can you please send it across?, hard to search). more importantly, its high time that i re-focus on other parts of my applications! gmac has ruined all my application efforts.

FYI the fellow @rishab1988 and many others noted a trend since the experimental section has been introduced on nov 21 this year that there are random significant drops in Q/V scores of few, so 'm considering that factor too. @rishab1988 was able to file a complaint and got a re-take for free, so i can attempt to do that here:
https://www.mba.com/mba/TheGMAT/TestDay/ ... ncerns.htm

cheers
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by fitzgerald23 » Sat Dec 25, 2010 8:58 pm
That seems like a very drastic drop, but considering your quant stayed strong Im not sure if GMAC would change anything.

I saw you took a significant number of Manhattan tests over your study window. Is it a possibility that you started picking up the same questions over and over that skewed your practice scores higher? The other thing is that at the end of your studying there was little variation or growth in your test scores. Were you actually studying the material and using the OG as a barometer for your progress or were you strictly using the practice CATs for your practice? You will build up your scores much higher, in my opinion, if you actually work from the GMAT books than just practicing tests. While I loved Manhattans practice exams and cant imagine a better product on the market, there are differences between the GMAT and Manhattan tests. I feel Manhattan is tougher, but at the same time after taking so many manhattan practice exams you may have just grown used to the format and then when the actual test day came you were not ready for the differences. That could also be an explanation as to why your verbal is so low on every 1st exam you take and then would grow by test try number 2.

I think you also may have been pulled in too many directions to determine different strategies for the test. I would focus on concepts and learning the material than strategies. While the test taking strategies certainly help, I think especially with verbal much of your success will come from developing your own way to attack the questions. Do you find that you have alot of time left at the end of your verbal sections? If so perhaps you are going too fast through certain questions? You write very well so Im somewhat surprised by the scores to be honest. Out of curiosity when you answer the questions do you typically read all answer choices or once you see one that looks correct mark it down as your answer? One of the things I have noticed on verbal is that making sure to read every answer is very important as there are often answers that sound correct that are generally a trick answer and it takes reading another answer that might be correct to get you thinking properly.

Best of luck.
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by sashish007 » Sun Dec 26, 2010 5:54 am
so i gave another mock Gprep and here's the result (snapshot attached): 700 V34 Q50
>> note that i didn't write the essays.
>> there were few repeats on Quant but there were few hard ones that i used to give up on but got correct this time.
>>1-2 repeats on Verbal (tougher questions) BUT 4 consecutive answers INCORRECT at the end (total - 13 incorrect!)

apart from suing them, 'm calling GMAC to at least let me take another GMAT before the 31-day period ends

fitzgerald23 wrote:That seems like a very drastic drop, but considering your quant stayed strong Im not sure if GMAC would change anything.

I saw you took a significant number of Manhattan tests over your study window. Is it a possibility that you started picking up the same questions over and over that skewed your practice scores higher?
@fitzgerald23 - mgmat was the only test prep i used other than gprep but if you look closely, i gradually moved from mcat to Gprep in the last 2-3 weeks of my study (but i used to do mini sessions of OG book and powerscore cr during early practice as well).

24 nov 2010 Mgmat6 670 V33 Q48
02 dec 2010 Mgmat1 640 V32 Q47
10 dec 2010 Gprep2 660 V32 Q49
13 dec 2010 Gprep1 690 V35 Q49
17 dec 2010 Mgmat2 680 V35 Q47
19 dec 2010 Gprep2 700 V38 Q48
22 dec 2010 Gprep1 690 V34 Q49
24 dec 2010 GMAT2 550 V19 Q48

The other thing is that at the end of your studying there was little variation or growth in your test scores. Were you actually studying the material and using the OG as a barometer for your progress or were you strictly using the practice CATs for your practice?
dissecting gprep and mgmat cat questions but with reduced OG in the last week.
You will build up your scores much higher, in my opinion, if you actually work from the GMAT books than just practicing tests. While I loved Manhattans practice exams and cant imagine a better product on the market, there are differences between the GMAT and Manhattan tests. I feel Manhattan is tougher, but at the same time after taking so many manhattan practice exams you may have just grown used to the format and then when the actual test day came you were not ready for the differences. That could also be an explanation as to why your verbal is so low on every 1st exam you take and then would grow by test try number 2.
manhattan is tougher indeed, esp. Quant, but i have seen some logical faults in answer choices on verbal.
the major reason for the low score in V on earlier mgmat cat tests is that it was not until the last 1.5 months when my verbal improved dramatically (30+), mainly due to:
-powerscore cr
-ron purewal's strategies on rc and timing
-reading nytimes, natgeo.com and history.com and even typing out many op-eds
I think you also may have been pulled in too many directions to determine different strategies for the test. I would focus on concepts and learning the material than strategies. While the test taking strategies certainly help, I think especially with verbal much of your success will come from developing your own way to attack the questions. Do you find that you have alot of time left at the end of your verbal sections?

If so perhaps you are going too fast through certain questions? You write very well so Im somewhat surprised by the scores to be honest. Out of curiosity when you answer the questions do you typically read all answer choices or once you see one that looks correct mark it down as your answer? One of the things I have noticed on verbal is that making sure to read every answer is very important as there are often answers that sound correct that are generally a trick answer and it takes reading another answer that might be correct to get you thinking properly.
you nailed this one head on. yes, i did begin focussing on concepts but a little late :)
completed the verbal but less time-efficiently than quant (in fact i used to die out at question 24 2 months ago!)
i try to hone in on the correct answer by justifying why a wrong answer is wrong and that IMO increases likelihood of the correct answer, no? i read every answer choice except sometimes when i have to rush on tail end questions - though that shouldn't cause a drop to 19 as seen below, could it?
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by sashish007 » Thu Dec 30, 2010 2:38 am
just received my official score report: 6.0 on the AWA!

i put modest effort here since Ron said save the energy for Q and V.

also, I called 1-800-717-GMAT to speak with a 'Program Coordinator', a sensible lady who created an incident in which a request for re-evaluation of scores has been made. my case is under review while i prepare for another test.
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by tnaim » Thu Dec 30, 2010 9:35 am
sashish007 wrote:just received my official score report: 6.0 on the AWA!

i put modest effort here since Ron said save the energy for Q and V.

also, I called 1-800-717-GMAT to speak with a 'Program Coordinator', a sensible lady who created an incident in which a request for re-evaluation of scores has been made. my case is under review while i prepare for another test.
Hello Sashish,
Sorry to hear about your experience. In fact, I can totally relate since I scored a 600 after scoring above the 700 mark on the last five tests. Anyhow, I did not get a chance to go through all the replies posted here but I think that one thing that can pay off in Verbal is mastering the sentence correction. This is relatively easier to do than trying to master other verbal sections since SC is built on a set of rules and when you have mastered the rules and patterns, you'd be able to do SC questions around the 1 minute mark and thus save time for more difficult CR and RC questions while boosting your score by answering lots of SC questions correctly.
anyway, all the best!!!
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by native658 » Thu Dec 30, 2010 3:12 pm
Hello...

I just took GMAT toady, Dec 30th, and I have the same situation as you do.
In the verbal section, I score an average of 38 on Manhattan CAT, but I only get 22 on my test.
There must be something wrong with either the test or my performance.

As my Verbal has improved dramatically, I was REALLY shock to see Verbal 22.
I hope you can get positive respond from GMAC.
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by meeramurthy » Thu Dec 30, 2010 6:40 pm
sashish007 wrote:
FYI the fellow @rishab1988 and many others noted a trend since the experimental section has been introduced on nov 21 this year that there are random significant drops in Q/V scores of few, so 'm considering that factor too. @rishab1988 was able to file a complaint and got a re-take for free, so i can attempt to do that here:
https://www.mba.com/mba/TheGMAT/TestDay/ ... ncerns.htm

cheers
Hi Sashish,

Can you please provide me the link to the thread you are referring to here? The one where @rishab1988 discussed about experimental section.

I just took my GMAT today and scored a 610 (Q48 V26). My verbal score on all my practice tests were between a 36-38. Dropping to 26 seems like a big drop especially given how I felt I did. I thought CR and RC were slightly more difficult but would not have imagined a 26.

Also, is Pearson rescoring your Verbal?

Thanks!
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by sashish007 » Sat Jan 01, 2011 10:10 pm
@tnaim: you got that right. that's exactly what i did in the last 3.5 months. improve my language structure i.e. SC by reading lots of nyt, natgeo, history, etc. and my scores on the verbal benefited majorly from this: an improvement from 23-25 to 34-38.

@native658: that's quite a drop. did you gave another cat after the GMAT? i got a 700 on a prep after the exam and that's what i used to dispute - you should have a very strong reason to dispute else they'll not honor it.
meeramurthy wrote:Can you please provide me the link to the thread you are referring to here? The one where @rishab1988 discussed about experimental section.

Also, is Pearson rescoring your Verbal?
here you go, go to page 3:
https://www.beatthegmat.com/i-dispute-my ... 29-60.html

yes, they are.
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