300 students study French

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300 students study French

by nhai2003 » Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:26 pm
In Jefferson School, 300 students study French or Spanish or both. If 100 of these students do not study French, how many of these students study both French and Spanish?

(1) Of the 300 students, 60 do not study Spanish.
(2) A total of 240 of the students study Spanish

Please help me with this one. Thanks!
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Re: 300 students study French

by mohitsharda » Fri Sep 25, 2009 11:00 pm
nhai2003 wrote:In Jefferson School, 300 students study French or Spanish or both. If 100 of these students do not study French, how many of these students study both French and Spanish?

(1) Of the 300 students, 60 do not study Spanish.
(2) A total of 240 of the students study Spanish

Please help me with this one. Thanks!
Given in the question 300 students study either french or spanish or both.
100 of these dont study french => 100 study only spanish.

Statement 1:
60 do not study spanish => 60 study only french
Now, total 300 students = (Only french students) + (only spanish students) + (both french and spanish students)

=> both french and spanish = 300 - 60 - 100 = 140
=> Sufficient

Statement 2:
240 study spanish = (only spanish students) + (both spanish and french students)
=> both spanish and french students = 240 - 100 = 140
=> Sufficient

So, choice D
MS

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by boysangur » Sat Oct 09, 2010 3:35 pm
Here is what confuses the heck out of me here. It says that 100 students do not study French, which means that those students study Spanish ONLY. So if 100 out of 300 student study Spanish ONLY, doesn't that mean that the rest study French only? In which case, nobody studies both. I know this is wrong but I can't see why.

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by neerajkumar1_1 » Sat Oct 09, 2010 6:59 pm
u can solve set question very easily if u draw a table...
see the figure attached..

first things first...
when it is mentioned
300 students study French or Spanish or both
that means there is no one who doesnt study either...
no Not spanish and not french = 0

Rest statement 1 and 2 say the samething...
so if one is true... the other is automatically true...

In the figure...
the black digits represent deductions from the question stem
red digits indicate deductions from statements...

Hope this Helps!!!
Attachments
sets.jpg

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by luiscarlos59 » Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:36 pm
So i got confused, in this kind of problems i usually use this formula

Total = Spanish + French - Both + Neither

300= S+F+B

And I got confused because I couldn't find any value for Neither so I thought insufficient information!

Stmt 1

F= 60+b

Stmt 2

S= 240+b

Combined

60+b+240+b+b-300+N

So where's the N value?

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by edvhou812 » Sat Mar 19, 2011 7:11 pm
Question says that 300 study French or English or both, and that 100 don't study French. This means 200 study French.

(1) Of the 300 students, 60 do not study Spanish. (300-60 = 240 study Spanish) Insufficient
(2) A total of 240 of the students study Spanish (Gives same info as 1) Insufficient

Draw a Ven diagram

200 study French; 240 Study Spanish. There are only 300 students, but our sum is 440. 440-300 = 140. 140 students study both. Since 2 gave the same info as 1, the answer is D.

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by jurafumo » Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:57 am
Hi All,

As I see it the wording of the question stem is misleading because it says that 100 of these students do not study Frech; therefore it refers to students studying Spanish only, meaning S=100.

being S- Spanish students // F - French students // x- both

S + F - x = 300
S= 100 + x (from question stem)(only spanish plus both)

substituting: (100 + x) + F - x = 300 --> F = 200. therefore 0 study both.

I know this is not the right solving process, however the OG fails to identify those 100 students as French only, because as I see it if you study "French and Spanish" you also study French, thus it should be inferred.

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by Whitney Garner » Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:15 pm
jurafumo wrote:Hi All,

As I see it the wording of the question stem is misleading...
Hi jurafumo!

I can TOTALLY see the thought process here and can see why it might feel confusing! So let's look at your math and make sure that we're clear on the definitions of variables:
jurafumo wrote:it says that 100 of these students do not study French; therefore it refers to students studying Spanish only, meaning S=100.
Okay, so since we're starting to define stuff, let's clarify: you are saying that S=Spanish Only (not French).
jurafumo wrote:
being S- Spanish students // F - French students // x- both

S + F - x = 300
Uh-oh! The definition of S just changed. Before you said that S was Spanish ONLY, but if we say that S+F-x=30 (total of each group minus the overlap), then we are assuming that S=anyone who takes Spanish, NOT just those taking ONLY Spanish!

This is why it is SO important to clearly define your variables and even make a legend:

S = Spanish (might take French, might not)
F = French (might take Spanish, might not)
B = Both
Where, S + F - B = 300.

--OR--

S = Spanish ONLY
F = French ONLY
B = Both
Where, S + F + B = 300.

Once you decide which definition of S and F you want to use, then you can build the correct set of equations!

CHOICE (A)
S = Spanish (might take French, might not)
F = French (might take Spanish, might not)
B = Both
Where, S + F - B = 300.

S+F-B=300 (300 students)
S-B=100 (100 study NOT French, so we have to eliminate the "Both" from the Spanish group)
F=200 (if 100 don't study French, then 200 do!)

And that is all we know - if we try to combine these equations we see that they are all linearly DEPENDENT (meaning that they aren't actually different equations - you add the 2nd and 3rd together to get the 1st!)

STM(1):
If 60 do NOT study Spanish, then
F-B=60 (Study French without studying both)
Now I can plug this into the 1st equation S + (60) = 300, S = 240. And if S=240, then 240-B=100, B=140.

STM(2):
If 240 study Spanish, then S=240, so 240-B=100, or B=140.


CHOICE (B)
S = Spanish ONLY
F = French ONLY
B = Both
Where, S + F + B = 300.

S+F+B=300
S=100
F+B=200

STM(1):
If 60 do NOT study Spanish, then they study French only:
F=60, so 60+B=200, B=140.

STM(2):
If 240 study Spanish (Spanish Only + Both)
S+B=240,
and since S=100,
100+B=240 , B=140.

So we could have solved this in 2 different ways algebraically (depending on how we defined the variables) or we could use a Matrix or a Venn diagram! Lots of options!!

Hope this helps!
:)
Whit
Whitney Garner
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by anjalimanas » Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:52 am
French Not French
Spanish 140 100

Not Spanish 60 X

Total = 300

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by Brent@GMATPrepNow » Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:32 am
I thought I'd point out that Whitney and neerajkumar1_1 are referring to a technique called the Double Matrix Double Matrix Method. It can be used for most questions featuring a population in which each member has two criteria associated with it.
Here, the criteria are:
- French class (taking or not taking)
- Spanish class (taking or not taking)

For more information about this technique and some additional practice questions, check out these 3 BTG articles:

- https://www.beatthegmat.com/mba/2011/05/ ... question-1
- https://www.beatthegmat.com/mba/2011/05/ ... question-2
- https://www.beatthegmat.com/mba/2011/05/ ... question-3

Cheers,
Brent
Brent Hanneson - Creator of GMATPrepNow.com
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