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by inactived » Fri Oct 01, 2010 9:29 am
The lack of complete historical records from the mid-to-late 1800's have made some Black inventions difficult to trace to their originators.
(A) have made some Black inventions difficult to trace to their originators
(B) have made for difficulties in tracing some inventions by Blacks to their originators
(C) have made it difficult to trace some inventions by Blacks to their originators
(D) has made it difficult to trace some inventions to their Black originators
(E) has made it difficult in tracing some Black inventions to their originators

Please elaborate your choice with explanations. Many thanks.


OA is: D
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by shovan85 » Fri Oct 01, 2010 9:38 am
IMO D

Get the first split HAVE/HAS

The lack of X HAS.... so all options with HAVE discarded (A,B,C)

Then difficult to trace is better than difficult in tracing
choose D
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by shovan85 » Fri Oct 01, 2010 9:40 am
One more thing it should be Black originators not Black inventions.
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by inactived » Fri Oct 01, 2010 10:29 pm
shovan85 wrote:One more thing it should be Black originators not Black inventions.
Can you explain more about differences between Black originators & Black inventions? I initially chose E because I thought that "tracing some Black inventions to their originators" would prevail the original meaning of the sentence.
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by shovan85 » Fri Oct 01, 2010 10:53 pm
inactived wrote:
shovan85 wrote:One more thing it should be Black originators not Black inventions.
Can you explain more about differences between Black originators & Black inventions? I initially chose E because I thought that "tracing some Black inventions to their originators" would prevail the original meaning of the sentence.
Before I reply I want make it clear that between D and E the main difference is the IDIOM. "Difficult to" is correct.

"Lack of historical records" so this makes "Inventions difficult". Now "Black Inventions" what can one imply from this? Can you please let me know how you felt that this will prevail original meaning?

However, when you take "Black Originators" you can think of a group of people or a race or even a Black magician community :mrgreen: . This is how I feel about the correct option. Its very hard for me to explain :)

Hope this helps...
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by frank1 » Sat Oct 02, 2010 12:52 am
A,B,C out 5 seconds...

D and E took more than 40 seconds...and i am still not convinced that D is answer
as
If we look have to original sentence --ok have is problem...from what sentence is trying to say(meaning) will be changed if we choose D....
It says....Black inventions bla bla was difficult .....but option D says....black originators...which changes the whole notion of sentence....

so not convinced...
but i am sure that they will dig in(any how) some reasons as it is said that OA is D....lol
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by inactived » Sat Oct 02, 2010 4:47 am
@shovan85: As English is not my native language, I don't really understand the difference of "Black" usage in answer choices D & E. I therefore pick answer choice E because the original uses "Black inventions" and "their originators".

If I known that "different to" is a correct idiom and "different in" is a wrong idiom, I would definitely pick D over E.
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by mundasingh123 » Sat Oct 02, 2010 5:04 am
shovan85 wrote:One more thing it should be Black originators not Black inventions.
The car was invented by Ford.
The car is an american invention.
doesnt the above stmnt sound right?
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by shovan85 » Sat Oct 02, 2010 5:48 am
inactived wrote:@shovan85: As English is not my native language, I don't really understand the difference of "Black" usage in answer choices D & E. I therefore pick answer choice E because the original uses "Black inventions" and "their originators".

If I known that "different to" is a correct idiom and "different in" is a wrong idiom, I would definitely pick D over E.
Neither my native language too :) . The way I felt I conveyed it to you.
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by shovan85 » Sat Oct 02, 2010 6:31 am
mundasingh123 wrote:
shovan85 wrote:One more thing it should be Black originators not Black inventions.
The car was invented by Ford.
The car is an american invention.
doesnt the above stmnt sound right?
Both of the statements are fine. I cannot defend my statement anymore. Sorry Guys!! I saw "difficult to" as correct Idiom so picked D. Later what I felt I wrote. My reasoning could be wrong I have asked some Experts to comment on this :cry:
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by David@VeritasPrep » Sat Oct 02, 2010 7:41 am
I was asked to weigh in on this one...

First of all this is not the best sentence and the way that it is worded seems mildly inappropriate. The way the term "black" is used seems disrespectful. "...Some Black inventions..." the adjective seems to apply to the inventions instead of the inventor. So this would not appear on the test as the GMAT is very multicultural.

Next let me say that those of you who saw the split - or as I say "decision point" you are right on the money. Lack is singular so you need "has" so that is a few seconds and down to D versus E.

Now for the choice between those two - Shovan85 is right on the money. This is an idiom, and a somewhat more common idiom. Something is "difficult to trace" not "difficult in tracing." You could say, "I have found no difficulty in tracing my family history." Do you see the difference?

As to why "black originators" is more acceptable than "black inventions," well it is simple, the inventions are not black - the originators are, so the adjective should apply to the inventors not the inventions.

Finally, perhaps the most important point that we can learn from the question - I really do not support this notion of eliminating an answer choice because it "changes the meaning of the sentence." In practice I have seen just as many GMAT sentences where an answer choice from B - E is correct even though the "meaning" of the sentence would be altered. Remember, answer choice A is not special -- there is no "original" sentence. You can eliminate a choice if the choice no longer makes logical sense, but not because it changes the meaning. By the way, in this case, as I mentioned above, the original sentence is the one that does not make too much sense.

Remember, this is a grammar focused section. The grammar in D is much better than E so focus on that first!

Hope that helps...
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by shovan85 » Sat Oct 02, 2010 8:05 am
David@VeritasPrep wrote:I was asked to weigh in on this one...

First of all this is not the best sentence and the way that it is worded seems mildly inappropriate. The way the term "black" is used seems disrespectful. "...Some Black inventions..." the adjective seems to apply to the inventions instead of the inventor. So this would not appear on the test as the GMAT is very multicultural.

Next let me say that those of you who saw the split - or as I say "decision point" you are right on the money. Lack is singular so you need "has" so that is a few seconds and down to D versus E.

Now for the choice between those two - Shovan85 is right on the money. This is an idiom, and a somewhat more common idiom. Something is "difficult to trace" not "difficult in tracing." You could say, "I have found no difficulty in tracing my family history." Do you see the difference?

As to why "black originators" is more acceptable than "black inventions," well it is simple, the inventions are not black - the originators are, so the adjective should apply to the inventors not the inventions.

Finally, perhaps the most important point that we can learn from the question - I really do not support this notion of eliminating an answer choice because it "changes the meaning of the sentence." In practice I have seen just as many GMAT sentences where an answer choice from B - E is correct even though the "meaning" of the sentence would be altered. Remember, answer choice A is not special -- there is no "original" sentence. You can eliminate a choice if the choice no longer makes logical sense, but not because it changes the meaning. By the way, in this case, as I mentioned above, the original sentence is the one that does not make too much sense.

Remember, this is a grammar focused section. The grammar in D is much better than E so focus on that first!

Hope that helps...
Thanks a lot David
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by mundasingh123 » Sat Oct 02, 2010 9:10 am
David@VeritasPrep wrote:I was asked to weigh in on this one...

First of all this is not the best sentence and the way that it is worded seems mildly inappropriate. The way the term "black" is used seems disrespectful. "...Some Black inventions..." the adjective seems to apply to the inventions instead of the inventor. So this would not appear on the test as the GMAT is very multicultural.

Next let me say that those of you who saw the split - or as I say "decision point" you are right on the money. Lack is singular so you need "has" so that is a few seconds and down to D versus E.

Now for the choice between those two - Shovan85 is right on the money. This is an idiom, and a somewhat more common idiom. Something is "difficult to trace" not "difficult in tracing." You could say, "I have found no difficulty in tracing my family history." Do you see the difference?

As to why "black originators" is more acceptable than "black inventions," well it is simple, the inventions are not black - the originators are, so the adjective should apply to the inventors not the inventions.

Finally, perhaps the most important point that we can learn from the question - I really do not support this notion of eliminating an answer choice because it "changes the meaning of the sentence." In practice I have seen just as many GMAT sentences where an answer choice from B - E is correct even though the "meaning" of the sentence would be altered. Remember, answer choice A is not special -- there is no "original" sentence. You can eliminate a choice if the choice no longer makes logical sense, but not because it changes the meaning. By the way, in this case, as I mentioned above, the original sentence is the one that does not make too much sense.

Remember, this is a grammar focused section. The grammar in D is much better than E so focus on that first!

Hope that helps...
Hi thanks for the help, can you tell is "helpful in determining" wrong?
Also David,please tell if
"The car is an american invention" is wrong ?
Last edited by mundasingh123 on Sat Oct 02, 2010 11:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by frank1 » Sat Oct 02, 2010 7:51 pm
David@VeritasPrep wrote: This is an idiom, and a somewhat more common idiom. Something is "difficult to trace" not "difficult in tracing." You could say, "I have found no difficulty in tracing my family history." Do you see the difference?


Finally, perhaps the most important point that we can learn from the question - I really do not support this notion of eliminating an answer choice because it "changes the meaning of the sentence." In practice I have seen just as many GMAT sentences where an answer choice from B - E is correct even though the "meaning" of the sentence would be altered. Remember, answer choice A is not special -- there is no "original" sentence. You can eliminate a choice if the choice no longer makes logical sense, but not because it changes the meaning. By the way, in this case, as I mentioned above, the original sentence is the one that does not make too much sense.

Remember, this is a grammar focused section. The grammar in D is much better than E so focus on that first!

Hope that helps...
well thanks guru,
As usual those words were light to the brain.

One reason i chose E was ,D says 'Black Inventors'....i thought GMAC Q writers wont use such word....rather like 'black magic' there may be 'black invention' ,term used in some parts of word....so chose E beside that it ratains the meaning of original sentence...

i think this is perfect example of situation that makes things tricky for non-natives
Reason it was not E...
1)Idioms...
i know it is harsh but well that is end of logic for non natives."well it is idioms so it is so ......" finished....lol....memorize them...

2)Exception...
Every book i read says dont change the meaning the sentence...
but in this case we should (as original sentence is bad....exception ....which opens a new dilemma:should we try changing meaning of sentence in other cases(sentences) as well for which feel sentence meaning is bad and this diemma results into confusion....)
These things make overall exam and preparation process difficult i guess...

thanks....
Just trying to get adjusted with it...thanks for reply
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