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supervisory positions

by sumanr84 » Sun Jun 27, 2010 1:51 am
A common social problem in the workplace occurs when workers accept supervisory positions, and it causes them to lose the trust of their former coworkers.

a. when workers accept supervisory positions, and it causes them to lose
b. by a worker accepting supervisory positions, which causes him to lose
c. when workers accept supervisory positions, and so lose
d. when a worker who accepts a supervisory position, thereby losing
e. if a worker accepts a supervisory position, he would lose

[spoiler]Source : Kaplan Test1, OA later[/spoiler]

Do you think the usage of "when" is justified, though it is generally used for time reference in GMAT.
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by albatross86 » Sun Jun 27, 2010 2:05 am
if vs. when

CASE 1: if and when are interchangeable when the statement of the conditional clause is a fact or a general issue (also known as zero conditonal)
If you heat ice, it melts.
When you heat ice, it melts.

CASE 2: if is used for something that, according to the speaker, might happen.
We can spend the afternoon on the beach if the weather is fine.

CASE 3:when is used for something that, according to the speaker, will happen.
I will clean up the kitchen right away when I'm back from work.


Here we have CASE 1 so it is justified to use "when".

a. "it" is not clear.

b. occurs by a worker is unidiomatic and awkward. Improper usage of "by"

c. This is perfect "The problem occurs when workers accept positions, and so lose the trust..."
And so is a rare conjunction and may seem wrong but it is correct.

d. a worker "who" accepts a position.... and what? This is a run-on clause that is never completed.

e. run-on sentence, no co-ordinating conjunction.


Pick C
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by viju9162 » Sun Jun 27, 2010 3:32 am
Hi albatross86,

Can you brief more about case 01:

If I understand, we can use"when" - when the statement of the conditional clause is a fact or a general issue.

In our example, when you heat ice, it melts ( This is a known fact).

Is my understanding correct?

Thanks.
Viju
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by albatross86 » Sun Jun 27, 2010 3:34 am
viju9162 wrote:Hi albatross86,

Can you brief more about case 01:

If I understand, we can use"when" - when the statement of the conditional clause is a fact or a general issue.

In our example, when you heat ice, it melts ( This is a known fact).

Is my understanding correct?

Thanks.
Viju
That is exactly right.

These are all ofcourse in addition to the normal usage of "when" which is to introduce time, as Suman mentioned.
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by martin.jonson007 » Sun Jun 27, 2010 7:35 am
albatross86 wrote: if vs. when

CASE 1: if and when are interchangeable when the statement of the conditional clause is a fact or a general issue (also known as zero conditonal)
If you heat ice, it melts.
When you heat ice, it melts.

CASE 2: if is used for something that, according to the speaker, might happen.
We can spend the afternoon on the beach if the weather is fine.

CASE 3:when is used for something that, according to the speaker, will happen.
I will clean up the kitchen right away when I'm back from work.


Here we have CASE 1 so it is justified to use "when".

a. "it" is not clear.

b. occurs by a worker is unidiomatic and awkward. Improper usage of "by"

c. This is perfect "The problem occurs when workers accept positions, and so lose the trust..."
And so is a rare conjunction and may seem wrong but it is correct.

d. a worker "who" accepts a position.... and what? This is a run-on clause that is never completed.

e. run-on sentence, no co-ordinating conjunction.


Pick C
So acc to these 3 cases ->

In a general fact , wch is TRUE -> if and when both are acceptable -> Catagory 1st ( CASE 1)

AND

In case of uncertainty anf certainty -> IF is used -> Catagory 2nd ( CASE 2 and CASE 3)

But

here is the case which comes into 2nd catagory... (CASE 2)

so IF should be used here... as per your comments....
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by martin.jonson007 » Sun Jun 27, 2010 7:39 am
@ Albatross

Also,

In E option,

e. if a worker accepts a supervisory position, he would lose

i don't think we need conjunction here...

there are no two independant clause....

it is simple If clause... ie one dependable +one independable clause...

Can u plzelaborate it bit more...
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by sumanr84 » Sun Jun 27, 2010 8:19 am
Well done Albatross !!

[spoiler]OA : C
OE : Sometimes the GMAT requires you to recognize grammar you almost never use in spoken English. That ' s true for the use of " and so " here. " And so, "" to do so " and similar uses of the word " so " are often featured in GMAT English. Because they ' re infrequently used even in written English, they sound funny, and the test writers are hoping you ' ll think they ' re wrong. Here (C) is best because it replaces (A) ' s awkward " it causes them to lose, " and (B) ' s " which causes him to lose " with the much shorter " so lose. " (D) is incorrect because it doesn ' t tell you what " a worker who accepts a supervisory position " does. (E) is awkward sounding. [/spoiler]
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by albatross86 » Sun Jun 27, 2010 8:43 am
@martinjohnson

Great questions.

1. This is actually a CASE 1 scenario - When X happens, Y happens. It is not trying to say ""If X happens then Y happens". "If" is mandatory only in scenarios where event Y is dependent on some event X happening in the future. If it is just a general statement like this - This happens when that happens, Like "ice melts when you heat it" (though if you heat it is also correct), there is no problem using when. Remember, here it is not something that "might" happen but something that "Will" happen., so usage of if and when is interchangeable.

2. Choice E: A common social problem occurs if a worker accepts a supervisory position, he would lose the trust of their former coworkers.

I guess you already noticed that "he" and "their" are not parallel, but I'm sure you were only wondering why I said "run-on". This is actually a good example of how a sentence can appear complete but isn't. First clause is "X occurs if Y", and second clause is also independent "He would lose the trust of their former coworkers" though grammatically incorrect.

Try and say the sentence out loud, actually the complete part is "If a worker accepts a supervisory position, he would lose..." This is okay on its own, but when you add "A common social problem occurs..." You are completing the initial clause and thus need a conjunction to the second clause.

Hope this makes sense.
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by viju9162 » Sun Jun 27, 2010 9:02 am
oh oh oh ..need to make notes :) !!! Keep sharing the knowledge albatross86 !!
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by arora007 » Fri Jul 16, 2010 5:21 am
got this one wrong...because "and so" my ears said NO!!
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