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ask about relative pronounce

by bupbebeo » Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:29 am
Dear all, when I learn modifiers with relative pronouns in Manhattan sentence correction. the book says that " On the GMAT, it is sometimes PREFERABLE to insert a modifier using a relative pronoun and a simple verb tense than using just an -ING form of a verb".

question: How do I know when it is PREFERABLE to use relative pronoun than V-ing.

For example. the book states: " We test-drove a car having engine trouble " is an awkward one. We should rewrite " We test-drove a car THAT had engine trouble". Why in this case we have to use THAT instead of using HAVING.[/b]
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by rockeyb » Thu Mar 25, 2010 3:52 am
bupbebeo wrote:Dear all, when I learn modifiers with relative pronouns in Manhattan sentence correction. the book says that " On the GMAT, it is sometimes PREFERABLE to insert a modifier using a relative pronoun and a simple verb tense than using just an -ING form of a verb".

question: How do I know when it is PREFERABLE to use relative pronoun than V-ing.

For example. the book states: " We test-drove a car having engine trouble " is an awkward one. We should rewrite " We test-drove a car THAT had engine trouble". Why in this case we have to use THAT instead of using HAVING.[/b]

The two sentences that are in question are :

(1) We test-drove a car having engine trouble .

Look at the sentence and its meaning specially the verb and the tense its using .

HAVING = present continuous tense .

That means the action is still in effect . Although you wanted to say you test drove a car that previously was having problems .

The meaning now changes to you test drove a car with engine problems still there .

Dose it makes sense ?


Lets look at the second sentence :

(2) We test-drove a car THAT had engine trouble .

More often than not THAT modifies the preceding NOUN in this case its the CAR.

HAD = past perfect tense and shows that the action is now complete .

So the car previously HAD trouble . And later you drove it .

Both actions happening one after the other and clearly indicated by past perfect tense .

Hope this helps .
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by grockit_andrea » Sun Mar 28, 2010 6:41 am
Actually, since "test-drove" and "had" in the second sentence are both in the past tense, that sentence doesn't establish that the car had engine trouble that ended before the test drive. In order to say that, the sentence would have to use the past perfect "a car that had had engine trouble," which is awkward; so THEN the best possible version would replace the second "had" with another verb. But regardless, the point is that "a car that had engine problems" is simple past tense, just like "we test-drove," so the presumption is that the car you test-drove had engine problems at the time of the test-drive. And that's fine; there's no reason you couldn't test-drive a car even if it had some transmission issues or whatever, right? :)

So to answer your question, the second version is preferable because the "that" makes it clearer that what follows it describes the car. In the first version of the sentence, the "having" isn't quite as precise. Take this example:

"I bought flowers for my mother needing to be cheered up."

Who needs to be cheered up? The mother? Or the person buying the flowers? We assume on the GMAT that a modifier modifies whatever it's next to, but the actual meaning of the sentence isn't crystal clear here. We can make it clearer by saying:

"I bought flowers for my mother, who needed to be cheered up."

Does that make sense?
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