Timing versus. Not timing during practice

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When I'm practicing my problems on paper during my training, does it make sense to start using a (2 minute) timer right at the outset? I was thinking it will because it'll engage my skills to start thinking under contraints.

Thoughts?
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by Osirus@VeritasPrep » Mon Mar 08, 2010 11:58 am
Other members seem to think its a good idea. I personally think its a waste of time. My thing is that the standard 2 minute rule doesn't make sense. If it takes me 3 minutes to do a tough problem but I can do two other problems in a minute and a half, then my avg is two minutes per problem, but to have a rigid two minute per problem view isn't a good idea in my opinion. The main thing is to recognizing when to give up on a problem. Don't rush through the problems you can answer just because you may not finish it in two minutes.
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by Brian@VeritasPrep » Mon Mar 08, 2010 2:41 pm
Hi Piyush,

I agree with Osirus here - especially at the beginning of your studies, it's not worth it to use a timer in practice, as it's much, much more important to know the skills and understand the concepts behind them. Speed can come later, and usually does once the skills become more second-nature.

I'd suggest this - spend enough time up front learning the problem types and the mathematical skills that are tested so that you feel comfortable with them, and then take a practice test. You'll be able to determine pretty quickly from your results whether pacing will be an issue for you, and on which types of problems or skills the pacing is the biggest concern. From there, you may want to add a timer to some (but not necessarily all) of your study sessions so that you can drill yourself on working more quickly.

Like Osirus mentioned, a flat 2-minutes-per-question rate isn't only unnecessary, it's probably counterproductive. Certain questions should only take you a minute or 90 seconds, and others will likely take you up to three minutes. If you're aware of how you personally react to pacing, that's the most important thing, and that's why practice tests are so helpful. If you usually finish 5 minutes early, by all means take 3 minutes on a tough problem. If you're usually strapped for time, you may need to recognize early on whether a problem is worth your time or not.
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by piyushdabomb » Mon Mar 08, 2010 5:39 pm
Hi,

Thank you for both your posts. After researching this concept into more detail, I have to unfortunately disagree with both you regarding time management. Read the following featured article and let me know your thoughts -

https://www.beatthegmat.com/mba/2009/12/ ... management

Additionally, Ron has also given a very very good response to another poster and he explicitly mentions that we should "never, ever, never, EVER" (or something stated like that) do a practice problem without timing ourselves primarily because it affects our time management style at the outset.

Brian - I understand your point regarding 'foundations' and then working through time management. As much as I can understand your point, I don't understand why we wouldn't want to manage our time even while working through practice problems.

When I studied for my gmat last year, I noticed that I had major timing issues. I told myself that I'm going to learn the foundations and then work on time management. That never happened because there was way too much to learn and I nearly hit exam time (although I never went for it because I was scoring 600's). During the last 2 weeks I bought myself a 'countdown' timer and noticed that I was starting to know what it "feels" when 2 minutes are up.

I'm not trying to answer my own question, but merely engage a fruitful discussion around the most effective way to study. I can't afford going down the path of only later realizing that I have to start ALL over again because I screwed up.

Does this make sense guys? Thoughts? Constructive criticism?

My quant was around a 44 (lost time, and started guessing)
My verbal was horrible at 20 (lost time ofcourse, and started to majorly guess).
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by Brian@VeritasPrep » Tue Mar 09, 2010 10:35 am
Hey Piyush,

No problem - I'm glad you brought up the "debate". Different people will find that different strategies work for them - one of my favorite Dave Chappelle quotes is "some people think cucumbers taste better pickled" - and because confidence is one of the biggest keys on test day, if you find that a consistent emphasis on pacing will work best for you, by all means go that way.

From my experience, I do think that people tend to focus a little too much on pacing too early in their study process, though. Where I've seen that backfire is:

1) When pushing the pace on a 2-minute question, people will default to memorization more often then understanding - "I think you multiply by sqrt 3, but maybe it's sqrt 2" - and accept that as a valid excuse when they get the problem wrong ("I applied the wrong formula...I'll get that right on test day") without having had to think about the rule. Very, very few GMAT rules need to be "memorized" per se - it's a pretty beautiful test when you break down what they ask you. Memorization is helpful, but it's best supplemented for most by knowing why the rules are what they are (https://www.beatthegmat.com/mba/2010/02/ ... n-the-room). If you're confident that you know the rule because you've had to prove it to yourself, you can be much more relaxed on test day.

2) When using the timed constraints in practice to "do more problems", people tend to spend less time analyzing what they're learning from each question. The most important thing you can get from any practice session is a list of a few takeaways that you can apply to future questions - things you've learned about the way questions are written to make them trickier, mistakes that you tend to make and need to be aware of, etc. It's just a habit of "intense" studiers that they tend to want to do more practice, but in doing so have less time or put less emphasis on synthesizing what they've learned from that time.

3) Maybe most importantly, some questions just take some time to "get it" in practice, but once you do you can extrapolate that knowledge to many others. If it takes you 3 minutes to answer a tough question, but then you look back and realize that you can do it faster, you've just learned how to do a tough question quickly. If you stop and guess at 2 minutes, you may well lose that opportunity to really understand the problem. Most would agree that the solutions in the Official Guide series are pretty unhelpful, and even if you're using books with helpful solutions, you'll learn a lot more from doing it yourself than you will from being told how it should have been done.

Some of the best advice I got as a kid was "basketball games are played in the winter, but basketball players are made in the summer". Our coach was telling us that you get to demonstrate on game day (or test day) what you've learned in practice when you were working on specific skills - getting faster and stronger, being able to use your left hand effectively, being able to control your dribble when making quick cuts, etc. The GMAT is similar - on test day, or even practice tests, you'll have the opportunity to demonstrate the things you learned in practice. The same way that LeBron James will spend hours in August only working on specific moves - left hand dribbling, three-point shooting, etc. - you can improve your GMAT results by spending study sessions working on specific skills without the need to go full-speed.

Again, do what feels comfortable and most productive for you, but I'd caution most on this board (by nature of the fact that people are here, they're fairly "intense" studiers for the GMAT) against their own tendencies to put too much pressure on themselves too quickly, to try to do too many problems at once without taking time to fully understand them, etc.

Cheers,
Brian
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by piyushdabomb » Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:48 am
Hi Brian,

A very comprehensive response you've given me - thank you. In a nutshell, you talk about how timing induces pressure, resulting in students to memorize certain formulas hence taking shortcuts where they shouldn't, how timing almost forces the candidate to not focus on the analysis of the problem, and how timing may affect the student get the situation and eventually give up a problem they could have done faster if they took 3 minutes (as opposed to 2 minutes).

I agree that you shouldn't memorize, as opposed to understand the problem. Isn't that when you're supposed to be building your foundations and not practicing 'problems' per se? Let's say that I'm trying to find the area of a circle. Shouldn't geometry be covered in a foundations setting and then only after getting comfortable with the subject matter, jump into problems timed? My thought is to your earlier comment, that 'foundations' should not be timed, whereas actually doing the problems should. During the foundations class, wouldn't it make more sense to learn and understand the formulas, and in the problems section time yourself and remember to apply what you learned in foundations?

Why would one spend less time analyzing what they're learning from the question exactly? It is the pressure mode during the 2 minutes? Wouldn't I want to try to analyze why i'm not able to finish within 2 minutes or pinpoint exactly where I wasn't able to move on after 2 - 2.5 minutes are up? Lets say I'm stuck on getting the greatest common factor between 2 numbers and 2 minutes are up. It's obvious (to me at least) to ask myself how much I was able to get and not get. Thoughts? Am I not understanding your point?

A tougher problem may very well take more than 2 minutes. Agreed. Why even consider working on tougher problems when your time management is off right at the outset and you can't even handle intermediate questions that need at most 2 minutes? Wouldn't it make sense to work on mastering intermediate level questions and a few weeks in, add more time to tougher questions once you know that you're ready to take it on?

I guess when I look at quant and verbal problems, here is how I would structure my work breakdown:

1. Spend time learning the foundations (set aside a fixed amount of time 'learning'). This also includes doing 1 problem to feel out the question untimed.
2. Allocate enough time to work through a 'set' of problems that relate to the foundations lesson you just took 'timed'. If you don't finish within 2 minutes. Guess yes, but keep your scratch work and notate that you guessed so that you can go back and see how you guesstimated, how much you were able to finish in your notes, where you screwed up, etc...

3. Analyze and find out your pitfalls, and work through them.

I'm not saying however that we should time every single question even when we're learning foundations. Just during problem sets. I had a very bad habit of 'stopping' the timer when I was taking the MGMAT exams because I was always scared I wouldn't see the score I wanted.

What am I missing Brian (or for anyone else for that matter)?
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by Osirus@VeritasPrep » Tue Mar 09, 2010 12:16 pm
The thing is if you have the concepts down, you will finish the section within 75 minutes. I remember when I took the exam, I spent 5 minutes on two problems and finished the section with 5 minutes to spare. If you're not finishing the section within the time constraints, odds are you just don't know when to give up on a problem. Almost everyone will have to guess on about 5 or so problems, so lets say you recognize when to guess on these and you only spend maybe a minute on these and then you guess. You just saved 5 minutes to work on problems you can get right. The bottom line is that to have a strict 2 minute per problem limit is not logical. For the problems you finish before 2 minutes, you would still only be allowing yourself 2 minutes even though you have saved time by finishing other problems earlier. So instead of using this extra time on harder problems, you will just finish the section early, and there is no real value in that. Good luck though.
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by money9111 » Tue Mar 09, 2010 12:28 pm
On my last practice exam i spent 4 minutes on 1 question and 8 minutes on another. thankfully somehow my Q score still increased by 4 points from the prior exam, but here's what I want to point out regarding timing... and the irony in it all is that I've been giving this advice on BTG for a while...

Look at the clock after X amount of problems. I didn't realize how quickly those 8 minutes were going by on that one question. I knew I could figure it out... I just couldn't give up. I never in 1,000,000 years thought that I would ever be in that situation. But low and behold... I was... I do not time myself while doing practice problems because I don't understand the fully understand the foundations yet.

I think anyone who will be applying in Fall 2010 is in a great position where we can take the time now to fully understand everything. I'll be honest.. once I understand the process involved in a problem... I finish it in under 2 minutes. It's like "Check did that... Check did that next step... check got that step... ok what are they asking for - ok X and I have Y... ok perfect.. let's do that and do this... click the answer... check make sure i did everything right... ok submit perfect done and done... NEXT!"
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by piyushdabomb » Tue Mar 09, 2010 2:09 pm
osirus0830 wrote:The thing is if you have the concepts down, you will finish the section within 75 minutes. I remember when I took the exam, I spent 5 minutes on two problems and finished the section with 5 minutes to spare. If you're not finishing the section within the time constraints, odds are you just don't know when to give up on a problem. Almost everyone will have to guess on about 5 or so problems, so lets say you recognize when to guess on these and you only spend maybe a minute on these and then you guess. You just saved 5 minutes to work on problems you can get right. The bottom line is that to have a strict 2 minute per problem limit is not logical. For the problems you finish before 2 minutes, you would still only be allowing yourself 2 minutes even though you have saved time by finishing other problems earlier. So instead of using this extra time on harder problems, you will just finish the section early, and there is no real value in that. Good luck though.
Question - How do you know when a question is 'hard' and you should be spending the 2.5 minutes per question like you did? By knowing this, can't we customize our timing requirements in accordance to question difficulty?
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by money9111 » Tue Mar 09, 2010 3:19 pm
Well I think that if you look at the problem and you can recognize it and know the underlying stratgies behind solving it... Then you know whether or not it should take you the 2 minutes to solve it or if you should try to muscle through it... Also if you know that it's a combinatorics question amd you're not too good at combinatorics then maybe you should take the hit and let it go... On the exam!
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