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verb tense?

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verb tense?

by TkNeo » Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:22 am
Visitors to the park have often looked up into the leafy canopy and saw monkeys sleeping on the branches, whose arms and legs hang like socks on a clothesline.

a. seen monkeys sleeping on the branches, with arms and legs hanging
b. saw monkeys sleeping on the branches, with arms and legs hanging


OA: A

This is how i solved it. I thought there were 2 action. First, looking up and second seeing a monkey. Since the first one was chronologically before the second one, i decided that first one should be in past perfect (have looked) and second one should be in simple past (saw)

OA: A
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Perfect tenses

by torontogmat.com » Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:00 am
The past perfect tense does indeed refer to something that happened before a definite past (and future perfect refers to something happening before a definite future). The past-perfect is: Subject *had* performed action before (past tense event). The future perfect uses *will have*.

In this case, although you are correct in noting that one would have to look up before seeing whatever it is that is above, the 2 actions happen so close together that for the purpose of tense we assume that they happened together. Other examples would be to say that the assassin shot and killed the president, or that the boy chewed and swallowed his food.

Whenever you see an 'and' in SC a little bell should go off in your head telling you to look for either plurality or parallelism. In this case it's parallelism, and the actions of looking and seeing (which are assumed to have happened at the same time) must be parallel.

Since the looking and seeing are the two things 'and'ed together, whatever precedes the first (Visitors have often) requires agreement.

Visitors have often looked, and visitors have often seen.
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Re: Perfect tenses

by TkNeo » Wed Feb 13, 2008 8:33 pm
torontogmat.com wrote:The past perfect tense does indeed refer to something that happened before a definite past (and future perfect refers to something happening before a definite future). The past-perfect is: Subject *had* performed action before (past tense event). The future perfect uses *will have*.

In this case, although you are correct in noting that one would have to look up before seeing whatever it is that is above, the 2 actions happen so close together that for the purpose of tense we assume that they happened together. Other examples would be to say that the assassin shot and killed the president, or that the boy chewed and swallowed his food.

Whenever you see an 'and' in SC a little bell should go off in your head telling you to look for either plurality or parallelism. In this case it's parallelism, and the actions of looking and seeing (which are assumed to have happened at the same time) must be parallel.

Since the looking and seeing are the two things 'and'ed together, whatever precedes the first (Visitors have often) requires agreement.

Visitors have often looked, and visitors have often seen.
Good explanation. Thanks .

However, one a side note, i think the answer is not the best way to write that sentence. If there was a choice that used "simple past" for both actions, it would be preferred over the past perfect, won''t you agree?
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by kaplansteve » Thu Feb 14, 2008 2:36 pm
'Have looked' is PRESENT perfect, not past perfect. It's used for things that happened in the past and are continuing, hence why they used it here instead of the simple past.

The explanation above is pretty valid. I only contest the part where it says that the two things happen so close to each other that we assume they happened at the same time. In truth, since this was never a past perfect situation, we don't care about the order of events. Since the tense is present perfect we only care about the parallelism.

Cheers!
Steve Snyder
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by stellategang » Fri Feb 15, 2008 4:06 pm
parallelism

a number of people have A'ed and have B'ed

the second "have" is omitted

you need "seen"

:)
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by richardwang6430 » Sat Apr 12, 2008 6:55 pm
The second choice is correct.
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by hillzheng » Sat May 10, 2008 11:22 pm
Is this question from OG?
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by barron » Wed Jun 04, 2008 7:09 am
In D,

doesn't 'with' modifies branches?
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by gmat740 » Fri Jul 31, 2009 10:11 pm
stellategang wrote:parallelism

a number of people have A'ed and have B'ed

the second "have" is omitted

you need "seen"

:)
Is it ok to omit HAVE?

Can anybody explain the rules for such omission?
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by Jacob_ » Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:23 am
Usually, a pattern like have+ Past participle and past participle is a wrong expression.
We should add "have" after "and" to make it a right sentence.
Why's that?
Caz that pattern may cause ambiguity.
Take follow as an illustration:
1.I have changed the chip and fixed my computer.
2.I have looked up the sky and seen some birds.
the first one may cause ambiguity because we don't know if the expression "fixed" is Present perfect tense or simple past tense.
That's because the past participle of the word "fix" is the same to it's past tense.
But as to the latter one, we will have no doubt on that. it must be Present perfect tense "seen" after "and".
That's because the past participle of the word "see" is not the same to it's past tense.
Only on condition above can we use a pattern like have+ Past participle and past participle. Otherwise it will cause ambiguity.
Personal view, open to dicuz.
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by rajatvmittal » Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:45 am
Hi

Here I am a bit confused about one construction

With arms and legs hanging-----> preposition + noun + Participle (-ing) is not considered good in GMAT! As it will render both the choices invalid.


Please advice on this too.
Thanks
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