Score Confusion...

[Gange72]

So I need a bare minimum of 500 to get into a program and I've not been in a real academic program for 25 years. I've taken a couple of tests, read some books, worked on some up to speed but feel like I may not be close enough. I have been using the GMAT official books, Magoosh, and Kaplan.

Anyway to the question:
The last real full practice test was a Kaplan test, result 540 with a 35 quant and a 29 Verbal. How does that translate into the real world?

[[email protected]]

Hi Gange72,

Assuming that you took this recent CAT in a realistic fashion that matches what you'll face on Test Day, then it stands to reason that you have a pretty good chance to score 500+ on Test Day. That having been said, I have a few questions about your studies and your goals:

1) How do you know that you 'need' a 500 to get into this Program? Has the School given you a 'guarantee'?
2) Did you take the FULL CAT (including the Essay and IR sections)?
3) When are you planning to take the GMAT?
4) When are you planning to apply to Business School?


GMAT assassins aren't born, they're made,
Rich

[Gange72]

I did take the full CAT including the essay and the IR components

1) I have applied and the only outstanding bit is a the GMAT. Which the school requirement is 500 minimum
2) my test is scheduled for the 21st and I'm starting to stress.

[[email protected]]

Hi Gange72,

How have you scored on your other practice CATs (including the Quant and Verbal Scaled Scores for each)?

GMAT assassins aren't born, they're made,
Rich

[Gange72]

I've had to pump the brakes because I think I'm too deep in it right now. The first full CAT Kaplan test was a 510 and around 30 for quant and 25ish for verbal.

Since then I've done several practice tests (so that I can review the answers and close gaps) but my scores are starting to go the wrong way and I'm getting more stressed. Which is why I say I may be too deep and need a break for a day or two.

To answer one of the first questions, no promises have been made of anything but my application is strong otherwise.

[MartyMurray]

Hi gange72.

Regarding stress, I tend to recommend playing the game through the stress, continuing to work as you learn to chill out. That's the habit you want to be in. Even on test day you can start stressing, and if you are used to just getting busy and answering questions, that's what you'll do. You could even challenge yourself to see just how high you can score on a practice test even when your are totally stressing.

Basically the thing to do is to ignore the stress and keep taking steps to improve your skills, steps such as finding a category of quant question to become totally expert at answering, learning about a type of triangle, or learning to more clearly see the logic of critical reasoning passages.

[Gange72]

I think working through the stress is good but I'm making stupid mistakes and that's not good.

[MartyMurray]

I think working through the stress is good but I'm making stupid mistakes and that's not good.

I hear you.

I actually used to train at like 1 AM, when I was prone to making silly errors. I learned that I could think clearly even at that time, if I was really logical and careful.

I am sure that you can do something similar in your situation.

You can work on becoming aware of the patterns to the silly errors you are making and learn to catch yourself before you make them.

By the way, there is no harm in doing practice questions as slowly and carefully as you have to in order to get right answers. While often people think that what they are seeking to learn is how to answer the questions, actually the job is not done until you take the next step and not just how to answer the questions but how to get them right consistently.

Once you consistently get right answers at a slow pace, seek to speed up while maintaining that consistency.

[Gange72]

Well, today is a new day and I, ready to go again today. I'm going to hold off on the practice/corrections for this morning as I have a tutor session this afternoon which will likely focus on verbal.

I've been told, and I wonder if this can be. verified, that this test is not really focussing on testing you overall math and English skills but more on taking data inputs and responding to them with the best possible answer outcome. Does that even make sense?

[MartyMurray]

Well, today is a new day and I, ready to go again today. I'm going to hold off on the practice/corrections for this morning as I have a tutor session this afternoon which will likely focus on verbal.

I've been told, and I wonder if this can be. verified, that this test is not really focussing on testing you overall math and English skills but more on taking data inputs and responding to them with the best possible answer outcome. Does that even make sense?

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.

That is totally what this test is about. Do you think that a business school really cares whether you are good at finding, for instance, the sum of the prime factors of a variable? As a matter of fact I have seen someone with not so great English skills score 47 on the verbal section, and answering some of the trickiest quant questions involves use of only the most basic math skills.

Basically to rock this test you have to see what you have to see. Many of even the most challenging quant questions can be answered in under a minute if you see key things, and while maybe knowing a few dozen sentence construction concepts can be helpful in answering SC questions, getting right answers to verbal questions is mostly about seeing what's going on and using logic to get to the right answer.

I have seen someone go from scoring around 30 in verbal to scoring 42, WITHIN DAYS, just by changing his perception of how to approach answering the questions.

By the way, your asking that question in the way you did seems to indicate that going for 500 is way undershooting a reasonable score goal for you.

[Gange72]

Well, thanks. The reality, for me at least, is that I have to get out of my own way. The problem, and why I first started this thread, is that I'm trying to figure out what I can use as a gauge. Getting 510 and 540 on a Kaplan test is one thing but if there is data that suggests people who score low/high on Kaplan tests either do well or poorly that's what I'd like to figure out.

Ultimately I believe I should be able to pull a 500 without months of study but I have one shot at this and I'm trying to ensure I'm maximizing my effort to effect.

[MartyMurray]

The problem, and why I first started this thread, is that I'm trying to figure out what I can use as a gauge. Getting 510 and 540 on a Kaplan test is one thing but if there is data that suggests people who score low/high on Kaplan tests either do well or poorly that's what I'd like to figure out.

I think that you can find the answer to your question by doing a search on something along the lines of "kaplan GMAT practice test difficulty comparison." Alternatively you could ask your question again in this forum, except this time word the title in such a way as to make clear that you want to know how Kaplan practice tests compare to the real GMAT.

At the same time, it could be that while most people score on Kaplan tests similarly to how they do on the real thing, some don't.

As I said above, there is any easy way to for you to get a pretty clear answer AND to get some practice taking tests that are almost exactly like the real thing. Go the the GMAT site, mba.com, and download the official practice test software. The tests in that software are known to be very similar to the real thing, and the first two are available for free. So, if you really want to know where you stand, using one or both of those is likely the way to go for you at this point.

[Gange72]

So back from my tutor session. These provide clarity for me around the questions and expected answers. So if anyone else is reading this I can say, with a high degree of certainty, that the aim in these tests is to try and misguide you as far as possible and then expect you to reel it all in.

One of the most maddening things I just came across, in Critical Reasoning - weakening, is that the answer is sometimes the one that has almost no bearing on the topic. I literally had to select the answer that didn't 'strengthen' the argument and by default 'weakened' the argument. Any suggestions on how to deal with this?

On the plus side, I learned that SC is the most important cornerstone and strength in that will help in CR.

[MartyMurray]

One of the most maddening things I just came across, in Critical Reasoning - weakening, is that the answer is sometimes the one that has almost no bearing on the topic. I literally had to select the answer that didn't 'strengthen' the argument and by default 'weakened' the argument. Any suggestions on how to deal with this?

That depiction of weakening questions is not really accurate. The right Critical Reasoning weakening answer definitely has a bearing on the topic and clearly weakens the argument.

As I said above, scoring high in verbal takes vision, or noticing key details and seeing what is going on, and use of logic to determine which answer is correct. If you don't really see what is going on, yes, the correct answer to a weakening question may appear to have basically nothing to do with the argument in the prompt. The truth is, however, that that appearance is illusory. So essentially what you are doing in choosing answers just because they don't strengthen the arguments is, rather than actually connecting the dots, taking a shortcut, one that will not lead to your scoring very high in the Critical Reasoning aspect of verbal. The only way to rock CR is to actually see the connections and the logic of what is going on.

While the wording of Critical Reasoning questions can be convoluted, the questions are not as whacked as you have made them out to be. Once you develop more skill in seeing what is going on in Critical Reasoning questions, the logic of them will become abundantly clear, and you won't be doing things like choosing answers just because they by default don't strengthen the arguments.

You are best off working on CR practice questions slowly and taking the time to learn to see what is actually going on. Just the other day, as I was working with someone, we noted that fully addressing each CR question that we worked on during the session took around 20 minutes.

While I can see how sentence correction could be considered a cornerstone of scoring high in verbal, in a sense, Critical Reasoning is the cornerstone of the entire test, as every part of the test is testing your skill in seeing what is going on and reasoning your way to the correct answer.

[Gange72]

I'm going to spend more time on CR questions than I have. I agree that understanding the key points in CR questions is critical to obtaining the correct answer. The GMAT obfuscates that as much as they can in the 'hard' questions and the answer is, in my short experience, a very subtle shade of grey.

So I use identification of key words and phrases in the questions and then try to focus on writing out strengthen or weaken on my whiteboard because they sometimes word the question using double negatives and confusing wording. What it comes down to is focus. Can I stay focused on that question long enough to get to the answer? Which, I think, is half the point.