Retake Opinion: 650 last year, 660 last week

[izzimg]

First post on this forum, so I'll do my best to provide what I can in hopes I can get some much needed guidance. I'm applying R1 this year for 2017 full time programs. My story is a bit unique, and I had hoped that might outweigh any deficiencies in my GMAT or undergrad stats.

Planning to apply at top 10 schools, specifically Kellogg, Wharton, and LBS. I don't think I've divulged my undergrad GPA to anyone when discussing ambitions as it seemed passe' at this point, but I have a Biochemistry degree from a Midwest private school, 3.41 GPA. I also studied abroad, which serves as a pivotal motivational story for my grades, did really well on my back half GPA. Work experience: short international stint in Italy working in Product Development (R&D) for a large food company right out of undergrad, transferred back to the US with the same company. After a year, I switched to another food company in the same function for a couple of years, but last year transitioned into Consumer Insights working on the same business. Fluent in Italian, some good non-profit volunteering and strategy work.

I originally took the GMAT (660, 38Q, 41V) in April of last year not knowing I'd be getting into the new experience at work, so I delayed applying to this Fall but decided to try to get a better score. Took it again last week but only got it up to 660 (39Q, 41V). Worth trying again before applying? I thought I had maxed out studying on Quant, and surprised myself that my Verbal stayed the same. Have hunches on my target schools and their preference for non-traditional candidates and potential to blink at lower GMAT scores, but only based off of anecdotal evidence and conversations. Would love any advice!

[[email protected]]

Hi izzimg,

First off, a 660 is a strong score (it's right around the 80th percentile overall), so it could be enough to get you into the Schools that you've listed. However, they are all remarkably competitive Schools (and the Q38 might be a 'red flag'). Your overall profile sounds remarkably interesting though, so you might not need to retest. Considering all of the details in your profile, you would likely find it beneficial to speak with an Admissions Expert about your overall plans. There's a Forum full of them here:

https://gmatclub.com/forum/ask-admission ... tants-124/

If you're advised to retest (which, considering how far off the Round 1 deadlines are, you probably will be advised to do so), there are some specific resources that I can recommend to you that should help you to raise your Quant Scaled Score relatively quickly.

GMAT assassins aren't born, they're made,
Rich

[MartyMurray]

I say retake for sure. I have seen people who seem totally clueless about math drive their quant scores up point by point to pretty much whatever score goal they have, and you can do the same thing. So it makes sense to just put in the time and at least get that quant score into the mid 40's and your total score to be over 700. In one recent case a guy drove his quant score up 3 points in a week just by making the right moves. Happens all the time.

You just didn't prepare effectively or didn't prepare adequately.

You didn't say how you prepared or whether you took many practice tests before you took the real thing, but if you did take some practice tests, you could start by going back over those tests, seeing what you needed to do better in order to score higher and work on whatever you found one area at at time.

For instance, if among other things, you made 4 silly errors, had no idea how to do a triangle question and took forever to do an overlapping sets question, then theoretically just by working on accuracy, triangle questions and overlapping set concepts and questions, you could drive your expected quant score up three or four points. Find say four more things to work on, and, if you work on them effectively, you have gone from Q39 to Q45, and from 660 to maybe 710. I personally would prefer to see you get your total to 720+ given the schools to which you are planning to apply, but anyway 710 would do the trick, and if you were at Q45, there would no longer be that Q39 issue there.

There is no chance that you "maxed out" on quant. You just didn't know how to drive your score up. Also, if you feel good about verbal, should you get some key insights you should be able to drive your verbal section score up another few more points too without too much trouble. So I say spend a month working on this stuff, effectively, and lock it up.

[izzimg]

Thanks so much for your input Rich and Marty! This is very helpful! I had already engaged with mbaMission, and as you can see, I believe my story will play a big part in my admission, regardless of how high I can get my score. This is quite surprising that you believe a 700 is within reach... I'd be very happy with 680+.

How high do you believe my Quant needs to climb to reach that, if my Verbal stays at 41? I don't know if the incremental work on my Verbal will help, before I took it the first time, I worked fairly hard on my weak spots on Verbal. I'll have to try a CAT soon to check where my weaknesses are there now.

Back to my Quant, I do believe that I haven't prepared effectively. I had been using Manhattan Math Foundations and Advanced Quant, in conjunction with the OGs. I believe my main weakness has been just not having done enough problems over and over again and learning from my mistakes each time.

It helps to hear that a 720 is a safe place to be with respect to the schools I'm looking at.

Rich, you said there were specific resources you said you can recommend to raise my score? I plan on taking sometime early May, if I do it again, so I'd love to construct a study plan soon.

Again thanks so much to both of you!

[MartyMurray]

This is quite surprising that you believe a 700 is within reach... I'd be very happy with 680+.

How high do you believe my Quant needs to climb to reach that, if my Verbal stays at 41? I don't know if the incremental work on my Verbal will help, before I took it the first time, I worked fairly hard on my weak spots on Verbal. I'll have to try a CAT soon to check where my weaknesses are there now.

Don't be too surprised that you can score 700+. The truth is that with effective preparation you could score 760+.

To get to 700 you just need 40 more total points. Ten additional total points roughly equate to about 1 additional section point. So you need roughly 4 or 5 more section points to get to 700. Additional section points VERY roughly equate to addtional uestions correct. So basically to get to 700 you need about 5 more right answers than you got the last time, holding everything else, such as the order of your right answers, equal.

Does that sound all that difficult? I realize that the CAT will be giving you harder questions if you get more right, but they won't be that much harder.

You can use this chart to see what section scores you need in order to get a certain total score.

https://magoosh.com/gmat/2013/how-to-cal ... at-scores/

Back to my Quant, I do believe that I haven't prepared effectively. I had been using Manhattan Math Foundations and Advanced Quant, in conjunction with the OGs. I believe my main weakness has been just not having done enough problems over and over again and learning from my mistakes each time.

Exactly. It's one thing to understand the math conceptually and another to be good at the GMAT game. Getting good at the game can take some topic by topic practice.

Check out this, a GREAT post from Magoosh. What is your typical level of understanding? 3? 4?

https://magoosh.com/gmat/2013/careless-m ... gmat-math/

If you choose a bunch of quant topics, say seven of them, and for each take your level of understanding, and skill, from 4 to 6 or 7, that 700 will be pretty much in the bag.

One way to do that would be to go to the GMAT section here, https://bellcurves.com, set up a practice account, and use the categorized quant questions in the question bank.

Probably you also need to get better at not getting smoked by tricky data sufficiency questions. One way to practice DS is by doing exponents questions, as they tend to be tricky without being particularly mathematically complex. You could do that by doing to the exponent section of the question bank that I mentioned.

I think you could get that verbal score to go higher as well. I am sure that your processes for handling verbal questions could be improved. Better process pretty much guarantee you more right answers.

660 to 700 or 720 is not that far. You are already familiar with the test and with the concepts you need to know. So with the right training, you could readily increase your score.

Do you need a study plan? Maybe and maybe not. What you really need is to figure out what you need to change in order to score higher and to just ADDRESS THAT. If you are addressing a weak area, you are making your expected score higher. End of story.

[[email protected]]

Hi izzimg,

I've send you a PM with some suggestions.

GMAT assassins aren't born, they're made,
Rich