distinguish x from y or distinguish between x and y ???

[killer1387]

hi,
wanna clarify ma doubts with regard to the preferable usage between
distinguish x from y
and
distinguish between x and y

I have read both the usage but while solving GMAT problems i encountered that always "distinguish between x and y" option is correct. Experts please throw sum light.
Thanx

[e-GMAT]

You are correct @killer1387. Typically "distinguish x from y" is an acceptable idiom.

However, in the context of GMAT, OG/GMATPrep defines what is acceptable and what is not. So we should make a note that this idiom is not considered correct per OG. Check out question number 107 in OG11. The official explanation clearly states that:
1: distinguish between x and y is the correct idiom
2: Choice A that uses "distinguishes x from y" fails to use correct idiomatic expression.

So till we do not get another official question in which "distinguish X from Y" is considered correct, we must include this idiom in the list of Unacceptable Idioms.

Thanks,

Payal

[tanviet]

E Gmat, please, make clear the following

on GMAT LAND, we have

"consider you an expert" is correct. "consider you to be an expert" is wrong

I learn English to go to USA" is correct. " I learn English for going to USA" is wrong

"so as to" is wrong. " so nice as to" is correct. (there is a question in OG 10 which declare this)

"I learn English so that I can learn MBA". "I learn English so that I would learn MBA" is wrong.

ANYONE KNOW ANY GMAT GRAMMAR CASES, PLEASE, ADD HERE.

Am I right"

[e-GMAT]

consider you an expert" is correct. "consider you to be an expert" is wrong
Yes this is correct. This is an idiomatic usage of the word "consider".

I learn English to go to USA" is correct. " I learn English for going to USA" is wrong
Yes this is correct. The reason is that we are expressing intention for the action - learn English. And when we want to express intention, we should use "to verb".

"I learn English so that I can learn MBA". "I learn English so that I would learn MBA" is wrong.
This is correct. This is purely a tense issue. "would" is in past tense so does not fit with the sentence in present context - I learn English...

As you can see 2 out of 3 above are purely based on the meaning. So try to understand the underlying reason behind such usages.

Payal

[tanviet]

"would" can go with present tense of verb when the certainty is not high. "would" is wrong in the example 3 because it is not suitable with gmat grammar, not because "would" is not fit with general grammar.

The point we make here is that gmat grammar declares some rules which is different from general grammar. And the problem is that in OG books, gmat do not said " gmat grammar rules that..." only said that " this is not idiomatic...." . we have trouble understanding OG.

OG books should declare clearly " by gmat rule, this is not idiomatic" . We loose a lot of time for this .

[aspirant2011]

Payal,

Just want to add one more thing which I have read on this forum is

Consider x to be y is not always wrong though the preference of consider x y is more than consider x to be y

Please correct me if I am wrong

[killer1387]

OG-12 also prefers consider X Y.

[e-GMAT]

Hi aspirant2011,

consider x to be y is considered redundant expression and hence should not be used in correct answer choice. See question 117 in OG12. This question considers consider x to be y, consider x as Y redundant. It specifies that the correct choice uses correct idiom - consider X, Y.

Now if you were to get a question in which one of the choices had this redundant idiom and the other choice had a blatant grammatical error, then you would obviously select the one with redundant idiom. But I do not believe you should get such question!

Hope this helps.

Thanks,

Payal

[robosc9]

You are correct @killer1387. Typically "distinguish x from y" is an acceptable idiom.

However, in the context of GMAT, OG/GMATPrep defines what is acceptable and what is not. So we should make a note that this idiom is not considered correct per OG. Check out question number 107 in OG11. The official explanation clearly states that:
1: distinguish between x and y is the correct idiom
2: Choice A that uses "distinguishes x from y" fails to use correct idiomatic expression.

So till we do not get another official question in which "distinguish X from Y" is considered correct, we must include this idiom in the list of Unacceptable Idioms.

Thanks,

Payal

Hi Payal,

In the example below the idiom is correct as per the official question.

Hydrocarbons, with which fruit flies perfume themselves in species-specific blends, are known to be important in courtship, and apparently this assists flies that taste the hydrocarbons on prospective mates to distinguish their own species from that of others.
A. and apparently this assists flies that taste the hydrocarbons on prospective mates to distinguish their own species from that of
B. and apparently this assists flies when they taste the hydrocarbons on prospective mates in distinguishing their own species from those of
C. which apparently assists flies that tastes the hydrocarbons on prospective mates in being able to distinguish their own species from
D. apparently assisting flies to taste the hydrocarbons on prospective mates to distinguish their own species from those of
E. apparently assisting flies that taste the hydrocarbons on prospective mates in distinguishing their own species from

So, I am a little confused...

[aspirant2011]

You are correct @killer1387. Typically "distinguish x from y" is an acceptable idiom.

However, in the context of GMAT, OG/GMATPrep defines what is acceptable and what is not. So we should make a note that this idiom is not considered correct per OG. Check out question number 107 in OG11. The official explanation clearly states that:
1: distinguish between x and y is the correct idiom
2: Choice A that uses "distinguishes x from y" fails to use correct idiomatic expression.

So till we do not get another official question in which "distinguish X from Y" is considered correct, we must include this idiom in the list of Unacceptable Idioms.

Thanks,

Payal

Hi Payal,

In the example below the idiom is correct as per the official question.

Hydrocarbons, with which fruit flies perfume themselves in species-specific blends, are known to be important in courtship, and apparently this assists flies that taste the hydrocarbons on prospective mates to distinguish their own species from that of others.

A. and apparently this assists flies that taste the hydrocarbons on prospective mates to distinguish their own species from that of
B. and apparently this assists flies when they taste the hydrocarbons on prospective mates in distinguishing their own species from those of
C. which apparently assists flies that tastes the hydrocarbons on prospective mates in being able to distinguish their own species from
D. apparently assisting flies to taste the hydrocarbons on prospective mates to distinguish their own species from those of
E. apparently assisting flies that taste the hydrocarbons on prospective mates in distinguishing their own species from ----- I feel comparison is not proper

I am confused with D option also as I am not liking to distinguish their own species from species of others

So, I am a little confused...

[e-GMAT]

Great find robosc9.

In the light of this question, I believe we can come to the conclusion that "distinguish x from y" is not unacceptable. Please note that when it comes to idiomatic constructions that some authorities consider correct and some consider incorrect, we can only rely on what GMAC considers correct. Now in this case we have two references:
1: OG11 question explanation stating that distinguish x from y is incorrect.
2: GMATPrep question in which correct choice uses distinguish x from y.

Any day, I would give more weightage to the official correct answer than the official explanation. So in this light of this, please do not eliminate an answer choice based on the idiom - Distinguish x from y.

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Payal

[e-GMAT]

Hydrocarbons, with which fruit flies perfume themselves in species-specific blends, are known to be important in courtship, and apparently this assists flies that taste the hydrocarbons on prospective mates to distinguish their own species from that of others.

A. and apparently this assists flies that taste the hydrocarbons on prospective mates to distinguish their own species from that of
B. and apparently this assists flies when they taste the hydrocarbons on prospective mates in distinguishing their own species from those of
C. which apparently assists flies that tastes the hydrocarbons on prospective mates in being able to distinguish their own species from
D. apparently assisting flies to taste the hydrocarbons on prospective mates to distinguish their own species from those of
E. apparently assisting flies that taste the hydrocarbons on prospective mates in distinguishing their own species from ----- I feel comparison is not proper

I am confused with D option also as I am not liking to distinguish their own species from species of others

Hi aspirant2011,

First of all choice D is not the correct answer. There are two major errors in choice D. And both pertain to the meaning of the sentence. I will give you some hints.

1: Per the original sentence think about what the hydrocarbons facilitate? Is this the same thing that is communicated by choice D?
2: Now focus on the comparison. What is being compared in choice D (same error exists in choice A as well).
Entity 1 - Their own species
Entity 2 - those of others
What do "those" and "others" refer to in choice D?

As far as distinguish x from y idiom goes, I have already discussed that in my previous post.


Payal

[aspirant2011]

Hydrocarbons, with which fruit flies perfume themselves in species-specific blends, are known to be important in courtship, and apparently this assists flies that taste the hydrocarbons on prospective mates to distinguish their own species from that of others.

A. and apparently this assists flies that taste the hydrocarbons on prospective mates to distinguish their own species from that of
B. and apparently this assists flies when they taste the hydrocarbons on prospective mates in distinguishing their own species from those of
C. which apparently assists flies that tastes the hydrocarbons on prospective mates in being able to distinguish their own species from
D. apparently assisting flies to taste the hydrocarbons on prospective mates to distinguish their own species from those of
E. apparently assisting flies that taste the hydrocarbons on prospective mates in distinguishing their own species from ----- I feel comparison is not proper

I am confused with D option also as I am not liking to distinguish their own species from species of others

Hi aspirant2011,

First of all choice D is not the correct answer. There are two major errors in choice D. And both pertain to the meaning of the sentence. I will give you some hints.

1: Per the original sentence think about what the hydrocarbons facilitate? Is this the same thing that is communicated by choice D?
2: Now focus on the comparison. What is being compared in choice D (same error exists in choice A as well).
Entity 1 - Their own species
Entity 2 - those of others
What do "those" and "others" refer to in choice D?

As far as distinguish x from y idiom goes, I have already discussed that in my previous post.


Payal

Hi Payal,

Thanks a lot for your response . I got it what you tried to explain .

I have one doubt to you i.e

we always talk about preserving the original meaning of the sentence..... Does it mean that even if the part in underlined portion given in the original sentence should map in meaning to rest of the options?

for example: in the above sentence if you see part underlined is flies that taste and option D talks about assisting flies to taste the hydrocarbons.........part in green is the original meaning of the sentence and part in red is given in option D.

[e-GMAT]

Great question aspirant2011. When we say that the meaning of original sentence must be preserved (if the sentence communicates logical meaning), we mean that the meaning of the sentence in its entirety. This definitely and most certainly includes the underlined portion.

And as you yourself analyzed, the meaning of underlined portions in choice D is different from the meaning of the underlined portion of choice A. And this is indeed one of the reasons for choice D to be incorrect.

So always understand what is it that the sentence is trying to communicate. Do not think about underlined or non-underlined portion at this step. Once you understand the intended meaning, then proceed to error analysis. Now bring your knowledge of grammar and analyze the sentence. At this point definitely focus on the entire sentence but be cognizant of the underlined portion. Once you have analyzed the errors, review the answer choices and do the POE.

Hope this helps.

Payal

[aspirant2011]

Great question aspirant2011. When we say that the meaning of original sentence must be preserved (if the sentence communicates logical meaning), we mean that the meaning of the sentence in its entirety. This definitely and most certainly includes the underlined portion.

And as you yourself analyzed, the meaning of underlined portions in choice D is different from the meaning of the underlined portion of choice A. And this is indeed one of the reasons for choice D to be incorrect.

So always understand what is it that the sentence is trying to communicate. Do not think about underlined or non-underlined portion at this step. Once you understand the intended meaning, then proceed to error analysis. Now bring your knowledge of grammar and analyze the sentence. At this point definitely focus on the entire sentence but be cognizant of the underlined portion. Once you have analyzed the errors, review the answer choices and do the POE.

Hope this helps.

Payal

thanks a lot Payal for clearing the confusion .........