Should I take the GMAT one more time??!?!

[smp5000]

I just took the GMAT for the second time. My first attempt I got a 670 (42Q/40V). I studied for about 6 weeks and took it again and got 700 (44Q/41V).

I am happy with the overall score, but a bit concerned about the Q split. I don't have the desired 80%.

I have a civil engineering degree, but only a 3.0 GPA (For certain reasons, and my GPA trends upwards in my last 2 years). I also have a very non-traditional application profile in major project construction and consulting. (I'm a white, American male, 27yrs old)

I am debating taking the GMAT for a third time before the end of August. I typically score 46+ (with some 48s) in Quant on my CATs, and just think I had a poor test day on the 2nd GMAT.

I have the following questions:

- Given my low GPA, do you recommend I take the GMAT again? (Assume that I will have very good applications, essays, and recommendations)
- If I were to score lower on the 3rd GMAT, would I absolutely kill my chances?
- Would I be better off focusing on applications and getting everything in for Round 1?
- Would taking the GMAT again by end of August put me in a serious time crunch?

I'm shooting for top 15 schools. (A few top 7)

Thanks so much. Look forward to hearing back.

[CriticalSquareMBA]

Hey there!

Congrats on joining the 700+ Club!

Ok, let's get you some answers!

Look, your GPA isn't great, but as a CE, they'll cut you some slack. What was the pedigree of your undergrad institution? That matters too. So yes, it's low, but not out of contention and your GMAT is pretty good so between that and the difficulty of your degree, you're in a decent spot academically. Especially when it comes to your quant score - you're a CE, I think you can do math . For sure no adcom would question your ability to hack it!

So...

1) Don't take it again - you're good, your score starts with a 7 so that's good! Would a higher score help? Of course, but it's not a math competition and that is the truth when they look at building the perfect class

2)It wouldn't kill your chances, but it would raise some questions and/or make you look like you're trying too hard. Effectively, a third score that's lower would merely have them triangulate you into the 650 - 700 range versus having the last score in their mind be a 700 (which is definitely what you want!).

3) Yes, absolutely!

4) Not necessarily, but it would definitely cannibalize your time so if you could work on your essays and applications throughout the month of August as well, it'll only make them stronger!

You're in a good spot - taking the GMAT again and improving your score somewhat isn't worth what you'd be sacrificing in terms of time spent on your applications.

I hope that helps! If you want to chat, just let me know!

Bhavik

[smp5000]

Thanks Bhavik!

I went to Penn State University. I believe it was ranked around 15 or so for CE when I attended.

My GPA average was about 2.5 for the first two years (immaturity and a certain family death), and around a 3.5ish for the remaining two years.

Hopefully that adds a bit more clarity to the equation.

What are your thoughts on Top 10 schools? Top 15?

[CriticalSquareMBA]

Good evening!

Thanks for the additional info. So yeah, you went to a good, solid school. What I said stands. You're in a good spot!

As for your GPA - trajectory, trajectory, trajectory! That's a strong story. I mean, a family death is most unfortunate but between that and general self diagnosed immaturity, that isn't exactly extenuating circumstances. So by that I don't mean it negatively, merely that you don't have a strong case to call out in the optional essay. However, if you were to bifurcate, on your resume or other parts of your application, between your overall GPA and major specific, I think your trajectory would come across loud and clear.

Before we get into the top 10, 15, etc. - I'd really need more information. You know - everything from work experiences to impact to involvement, etc. There's a lot that goes into evaluating chances and the more info, the better the evaluation!

It might be easier to chat over the phone and if you're interested, you can sign up for one of our free consultations here. I conduct all of them so it'd be a good way to continue this conversation offline.

Either way, I look forward to learning more!

Bhavik

[smp5000]

And a good evening to you too!

Here is a little background information for you.

Stats:

27 yr old, white, American male

Education:

Penn State University - Main Campus
3.00 Cumulative GPA, 3.5 Major GPA
Civil Engineering - 3.8 GPA avg 3rd and 4th year (all major-intensive courses), 2nd year had some family issues, 1st year immature (fraternity)
GMAT: 700 (44Q/41V)

Work Experience:

- 3 years in major construction project management. Was actually laid off twice in 1.5 years due to both companies suffering major, company-wide workforce reductions. Regardless, only unemployed for a total of three months in which I was proactive in job searching. Was still able to secure a great job and receive a promotion to Project manager after only 3 months. Managed two projects simultaneously worth a total of $25M from start to finish. Was overseeing all aspects of job operations which included a workforce of 40+ workers at times.

- Current (approaching 2 years): small, niche consulting division in Big Four firm. Global group with only 30+ members. Focused on major real estate and construction projects ($100M+). Provide both qualitative management consulting and quantitative analytic/financial services. Promotion after one year.

Total 5 years.


MBA Goal:
I transitioned to a consulting role because my passion is actually in the "business" side of real estate and construction, as opposed to the heavy "engineering" side. Therefore, I thought consulting would be a good segue.

The reason for wanting a top-MBA is so that I can further learn and develop my business knowledge in finance and management in hopes of one day being a c-level member of a major real estate or construction firm

Extracurricular:

- co-leader of a yearly, global real estate and construction market survey. We contact over 130+ major companies in the RE&C industry around the world, and leverage our firm's partners across the world to meet with c-level executives of these companies and discuss future market predictions. We then take this data and form it into a formal document for presentation.
- assistant coach/volunteer for a golf organization that brings the game of golf to inner city children as well as teaching them life skills.
- lead organizer for Junior Achievement program within company. In charge of 30+ volunteers that go to inner city schools and help teach business/commerce to young children

Recommendations:

- expecting great recommendations from current supervisor as well as my previous supervisor
- also have multiple family friends who are alum and still involved with the following: Booth, Tuck, Fuqua, Wharton

[CriticalSquareMBA]

Clearly you have posted that somewhere before...

I think you should definitely target some top 10 schools. If you're looking at going into an executive level position long term within real estate, you'd be well served by a general management / finance program. Given your experience, I think going to a school with a real estate concentration would be great but most have them and your experience gives you a good foundation.

Additionally, you'd want to go to a program that has the regionality and proximity that you would need to progress in real estate.

Here are some options:

Significant stretch - go for Wharton. You have some network there and honestly, if you don't try, you won't know. I'm telling you now it's a stretch for most and a big one for you too but it's the most logical choice within the top 4 or so for you and I think you should go for it!

For Realistic Stretches, look at Kellogg, Booth, and Columbia. Booth doesn't have a real estate concentration but you're in Chicago - you can make things happen. I didn't add Tuck there even though you mentioned having some exposure because while it's a great general management program, they don't place that often into real estate and their network, while strong, isn't that large.

For Aligned, I think Fuqua and Ross are good options. Once again, Fuqua isn't a real estate school but it has a great culture I think you'd fit well into. Same goes for Ross in terms of culture but their experiential curriculum is really what sets them apart.

As a Safety, consider Emory. They have a regional presence but in real estate, they're becoming a heavy weight. They've made some investments in the last few years that are really starting to pay off on that front! I know at 18 it's lower than you are probably looking to go but as far as the specialty goes, it's a great program!

I just wrote a lot - so I'll stop and pass it to you for your thoughts.

Cheers,

Bhavik

[smp5000]

Thanks Bhavik. And, yes, I have posted that before!!!

Not to back track, but going back to the GMAT score in relation to my low GPA:

If I were to take the GMAT a third time and receive a 710 or 720 with a higher quant, would that even help me?

Or do I need a rock star score of 750+ to put any doubts aside?

Also, what are your thoughts on Round 1 vs Round 2. Should I not take the GMAT again and shoot for Round 1 with what I have? OR should I delay until Round 2 and try to score a 730+ on the GMAT?

I've about had my fill with GMAT, so trying to get a 730+ does not seem realistic to me haha

Obviously I'm torn on what to do...

[CriticalSquareMBA]

Hey there,

Honestly, you'd have to rock the GMAT to make a difference. Unless you got a 730+, it wouldn't make much of a difference. And like I said, I don't think there are that many doubts currently for you to dispel. I mean, you're an engineering from a top 20 school for your program with a 700 - no one is going to wonder if you can handle the academic rigor of an MBA program. From a reporting standpoint would they like a 710 or a 720, sure, but it's really not the end of the world and hardly worth the effort you'd have to put into it.

As for rounds. It's the end of July which means if you put your nose to the grindstone now, you should have enough time to put forward good, solid apps for R1. So...you should! If this were the end of August or early September, I'd tell you to give it a moment to R2 versus trying to ram through half-baked apps but you're not in the position so definitely apply R1. Especially since you're targeting top 15 programs.

Finally, and not to be negative here, merely realistic, improving your score to a 730+ is going to be really hard. It's not a linear scale after all. Look, you're in the range and the higher end of that range to boot. The GMAT is only one part of your overall application. So spend the time on your apps - focus in on the essays and prepping your recommenders. Because at the end of the day, that'll pay off far more than a 20 point increase in your GMAT score.

I know you're torn but you're in a better spot than most so you need to be honest with yourself about that

Bhavik

[money9111]

Hey SMP5000... I had to jump in here to have you think about something.

Full Disclose - I didn't read all of Critical Square's responses (too long for me) so there may be some duplicate information here but... needless to say...

There's no need for you to take the GMAT again RIGHT NOW. Sure, if you thought you were done with your essays and had your applications ready to go, which I'm assuming not since essay questions were just released, then I would say go ahead and try one more time. You 700 will not keep you out of ANY school. Trust me... you're in a different boat from other people and I have a theory as to why the Avg. GMAT score keeps increasing Y/Y but that's neither here nor there.

With the right story - essays - interview prep, etc etc... you should be a good candidate for the schools that you've mentioned. Now that doesn't mean that you are definitely going to get in but with what you've said here... you will be considered. Now, having gone through the admissions process myself... been a 1st year... 2nd yr... admissions interviewer.. blogger... video blogger... etc etc blah blah, I have talked to a lot of people (White, American, Males w/ avg. GMAT scores). I've seen some of them be admitted to schools in your range and others be rejected. What is the difference between them? Well, I don't think it's the work experience or lack of extracurriculars. It's more about their story. If you are "knocked out" of the process before you get the interview then there are a myriad of things that could have gone wrong with the softer things in your application - Essays. These people had avg. GPAs.

I say this because I see that you COULD make the same mistake and it's one that is very much often overlooked by candidates. You said "The reason for wanting a top-MBA is so that I can further learn and develop my business knowledge in finance and management...."

While this may be trust, it's the MOST STOCK RESPONSE/REASON that applicants give for wanting to get an MBA. I know because I did the same thing and I'm currently working with some applicants who had a very similar sentence in their essays. Think... you want to separate yourself from the rest of the applicants. So sure, you may have said this as a brief overview as to why you want to get an MBA. if that's the case and you truly have thought long and hard about it then you can ignore this post. If that is the deepest reason that you have come up with as to why you want to get an MBA then I challenge you to think harder about it.

This post has gotten really long so I'll end here.. But if you have more questions feel free to send me a PM. I love helping people think through this process! Not sure why I love it but I love seeing applicants have that "light-bulb" moment! Okay okay, I'm done!