sick of MGMAT's self promotion, now Kaplan too

[2legit2quit]

Is anyone besides me sick of Stacey from Manhattan GMAT relentlessly promoting the company's products??? When she first arrived here, she was a welcome GMAT expert who happened to be an instructor/biz dev person with MGMAT. Now, she's a corporate shill who happens to be a GMAT expert. She used to carefully mention the compay's offerings, but now she constantly promotes the company in increasingly blatant posts. What happened to just offering advice and helping us out, instead of helping out your own company? I am beyond sick of it.

And if Stacey doesn't promote MGMAT, then Eric does. Just so you all know, Eric HAS NEVER USED MANHATTAN GMAT PRODUCTS. However, he promotes the crap out of them, saying how awesome they are. That's because MGMAT is a paid participant of this site. I used to have faith in Eric's recommendations, but now that he's a paid shill, I don't trust him or this site anymore. I remember reading a thread recently where Stacey and Eric actually managed to contribute without promoting the 10% discount offered to forum members, so another forum moderator popped in to promote it for them. It's disgusting, and they ought to be ashamed of themselves.

And now we've got some shmoe from Kaplan doing the same crap. Not as bad, but it's only a matter of time. You can't criticize either company without a representative coming in and telling you your opinion is wrong.

Despite my user ID saying this is my first post, I am actually a long-time visitor who used to benefit greatly from these forums. Now, I have to wade through all the b.s. about these companies to get real advice. This site has outlived its purpose because it no longer serves the GMAT test taker...it serves its advertisers.

We may live in a capitalist society, but all of you involved should be ashamed of yourselves and your utter lack of integrity.

I am OUT OF HERE.

[channab13]

Yeah, I know what your feeling. I am suprised your post has not been deleted by now. Eric has done a great job bringing this forum. I have to give him credit for that. But more than manhattan gmat and kaplan promoting thier products, is this whole stacy black man promotion.

Actually Manhattan Gmat and Kaplan products are the best in the market after the official guide. Their actual study guides. Your class experience will differ on instructor and if at all you need their classes or not is another debate.

Ofcourse, less self promotion would be appreciated with the ocassional push of their products.

But my main "beef" with this site is the sort of flagrant promotion of stacy blackman's services without an iota of forewarning or objective analysis.
Everyone knows.. more than 97% of folks who are admitted to top schools do it on their own merit.. without the need of an essay editiing service.. if you wanna go to a school that good, u better be able to write an essay with proper grammer and some good story line. otherwise whats the point. do you really need to pay like 3 to 5 grand to somebody like stacy black man? i mean if you want a third party perspective, im sure you must know someone who went to b school, ask them, they will do it for free. they are many more "consulting" services out their that charge way less.. and on top of that.. the top b schools are catching on to stacy blackman and others.. cuz.. they have the same few folks at these firms with the same pattern of advice.. and a b school admission officer i spoke to told me. we know this is a stacy black man edited essay.. when we see it... so that tells u .. how much it is gonna help you.. when the b school admissions office, knows u had to pay 3 grand to some xyz to edit your essay,...

anyway.. keep up the good work erica.. dont get corporatized so soon

[aim-wsc]

Yeah, I know what your feeling. I am suprised your post has not been deleted by now. Eric has done a great job bringing this forum.

No, I'd not delete this thread! but just move it to suggestions & feedback section.

[2legit2quit]

I'm glad to see it hasn't been deleted, but I think it should still be in the GMAT Strategy forum. I posted it there because that's where most of the blatant self-promotion is going, so it's only fair that this has an equal opportunity to be seen by everyone else who is sick of this too. If enough people see this and respond, maybe some good changes will result.

[blue_lotus]

I think Eric has done the right thing by moving this post to Feedback section.
Your post can be taken as a suggestion/feedback.

People like Stuart and Stacy Koprice are very good to have in this forum.
They give a lot to this forum.
I dont think there is anything wrong when someone wants to know about Kaplan and MGMAT and the instructor answers them.

I am a forum user for some time now and I am perfectly happy with the way this forum is managed by Eric and others.

[2legit2quit]

Don't get me wrong; I think it's a great forum. That's why it irritates me so much that the promotional nature of the experts' participation has become so predominant. I realize Eric has bills to pay, but that's what the banner ads are for. The discussions should be as free from promotional messages as possible, and Stacey especially needs to cool it. I often don't even want to read a thread she's participated in anymore, because I know she'll take the opportunity to discuss in detail her company's products.

[beatthegmat]

Hi 2legit2quit:

First of all, thanks very much for your comments! As you might anticipate, I disagree with the points that you raise against this community--particularly your thoughts about the integrity of some of our partners here. My apologies however if you have felt offended by anything you've seen here; that's a big disappointment to me because I really want all users to feel comfortable participating at Beat The GMAT.

I strongly believe that this community has only become better with time, and that the partners have done a LOT to improve the quality of content and experience for all members. I'm sorry that you don't see eye to eye.

I certainly take note of your opinions, and I'm sorry to see you depart. I wish you all the best in your business school journey and beyond!

[frantastic]

Well, this is certainly an interesting thread!

I have to say, as someone who joined a month ago but spent some time exploring the forums before signing up, that 2legit2quit has a valid point. Stacey DOES promote the company rather aggressively, and the moderators seem to also. I've never actually looked at Stacy Blackman's forum so I don't know about that one, but I have been surprised to see how much MGMAT is promoted here by people with a vested interest.

At about the same time I joined this forum, I joined GMATClub.com. While both forums are excellent, the big difference is that there isn't anyone promoting their company there, and I have to say, I prefer it. I feel like I'm being marketed to on this site. I think that Stacey and the moderators here give truly excellent advice, but the constant self-promotion is a big turnoff. My initial opinion of Stacey and MGMAT was very high, but it has definitely slipped because of the self-promotion.

As another example...there's an admissions expert in the generally dead Vault.com MBA forum by the name of Alex Chu, and he gives incredible advice without promoting his company (other than a simple tagline). People seek him out, and he's always happy to share his knowledge. It's because of his classy participation there that I'd immediately contact him if I wanted to go beyond the free advice he's given me.

I won't go as far as 2legit2quit and bail on this great forum, but I do think his/her complaint is something the site moderators and expert participants should heed. Stacey, let your expertise speak for itself; we're already impressed. Make it a sticky post if you want to extol MGMAT's virtues, but don't keep posting rave reviews of your own company when you're replying in dozens of posts. All things in moderation. You know?

Thanks to everyone at BeattheGMAT for a great forum!

[beatthegmat]

Great thread guys, and thanks for the comments--for some reason I'm not interpreting the same aggressive marketing as some of you are citing.

Are you referring to the signatures of some of the experts on this site? Our resident experts are free to market their services in their signatures. I'm happy to allow this signature marketing because remember--these top experts are providing their services for free in this community!

If this sentiment is widely shared, I'd like to learn more and figure out how to fix it--this is OUR community!

[frantastic]

No, actually, it's not the sig files. Those are fine, and that's where they should absolutely give their companies a plug.

It's within the posts that it's a problem. Not all of Stacey's posts include plugs for the company, but she goes into great detail quite frequently, beyond informational stuff. It has a definite promotional slant. It's nice to see she's enthusiastic about the company, but I personally am already tuning her out and am not as likely to read her posts as before. It's starting to feel like Manhattan GMAT owns the site, although now that Kaplan's here too, I'm guessing they don't. LOL.

[beatthegmat]

Gotcha--I guess I haven't interpreted the same overly-pushing marketing from the posts you've mentioned. It's true, our experts do go into pretty deep detail about their services, but I think that most members request that kind of detail. I guess it's understandable because these courses can cost some big bucks!

Anyway, I'll do some more investigating to scope this issue. In general, I've been working to bring more of these great experts to the community--I think their participation makes Beat The GMAT unique among the other GMAT-related communities.

Again though, appreciate the comments and I'm always welcome to hearing constructive criticism! The community owns this website and it's up to us to make it the best place possible to study for the GMAT.

Thanks everyone and all the best,

[aim-wsc]

It's starting to feel like Manhattan GMAT owns the site, although now that Kaplan's here too, I'm guessing they don't. LOL.

LOL
Yeah! It's definitely not a Manhattan GMAT owned site!
But We used to have a "Ask manhattan GMAT" sub-forum in strategy section earlier, where you could ask any questions (preferably GMAT related queries). But we (the members of the forum) considered it other way and the sub-forum ended up with many Manhattan GMAT administration related questions.

I remember many times I redirected users to MGMAT website for more information, but obviously if you have answers to the queries you would reply them.

I (we) always like to receive the feedback and know our members opinion about the website. It's a welcome thread, & we would like to know all of our members opinion here. I might add a poll to the thread so that user and easily express their opinion without having to post a reply here. However reply to the thread is always appreciated as we'd love to hear your perspective here.

The forums content might have looked biased towards Manhattan GMAT earlier as we had only one "certified expert" (representing any GMAT prep coaching co.) all other who used to contribute to the forums were either private tutors or used to post less. Still personally, I think the way experts or Eric post their replies or even sometimes plug 10 % discount link it's OK & acceptable.
I am not saying this because I am associated with BtG forums or am a senior moderator, ( I infact had come up with many criticisms for this site)I am saying this because this is what I feel.

Now the situation has changed, and Eric is in the process to bring some more experts from other GMAT test prep companies BUT THAT DOESNT MEAN, that we'll have more promoting (now with different companies ) posts LOL. (at least we should make this sure it wont happen)

Remember, at beattheGMAT, we get the information, expertise & advice for free, I dont want to compare this site with other similar sites as it would become a self-promoting post But on a serious note what set this GMAT forum apart from other sites are

• the resident expert
  & also we dont have any product to sell!

It's because of the resident experts and their quick yet comprehensive replies our members stick to this site.

Lastly about the moderators who are not resident experts but have been contributing to the site: I would say whatever they post is purely based on there own experience, They liked certain services they praised them. There's no question of vested interest as moderators here are not paid for there time they are free to express whatever they feel about any GMAT coaching company... afterall its the OPEN community where you can express you views ( remmber, thats why the thread is still ON! )

[wawatan]

I do agree that stacey does advertise alot of manhattan gmat material here. but if you were in her place, wouldn't you do the same? she is the director of manhattan gmat research or some kind of important title...plus she makes 100 dollars an hour! all manhattan instructors make that much...if i was her, i would be doing the same thing too! however, i really appreciate her advice here...she scored in the 99th percentile and she is able to clearly explain certain techniques that she used to score that high...i have read many posts from people who score very high, but they aren't good in explaining how they were able to score so high. i think stacy's opinion and her advice should be strongly appreciated....and if you are annoyed w/ her advertising ...just don't read her posts...haha! it's only that simple!

[mayonnai5e]

I just wanted to say that I have absolutely no affliation with MGMAT whatsoever, but I really do believe they have great books and a great CAT exam. That is my only reason for promoting their material. I have no conflicts-of-interest to disclose.