MGMAT, Kaplan and PR

[wangs700]

Hi all,
I'd like to get some advise on how to start my GMAT prep. Here are some of my stats.

Been out of school for 1 1/2 years
Took Kaplan about 2 years ago in my Senior year, fell asleep in every class
Target score 700+, test date Apr, May 2008, leaving Jun, July for retake
My Kaplan prep test was a 520 or so, which was 2 years ago.

I've been doing some researches and have gotten a lot of good ideas on how to achieve my target score, but I know for myself that if I don't take a class, I won't be able to keep myself motivated. My firm offers a 40% discount for Kaplan classroom sessions. But after reading about MGMAT, I think I should reconsider my choices.

I took Kaplan classroom before as I've mentioned, mainly because I wanted the "High Score Guarantee", you get to take the class again for free if for any reason you werenot satisifed with your score, given you've done all your homwork and went to every class. But I don't have that much time to retake the class now that I am working and seriously, it won't help me with my score anyways, because they don't target your area of weakness when you take the class again - it's basically just another class, same material, same pace, bluh bluh.. Also, I don't plan on studying for the GMAT for more than 3 months, I'll burn myself out. I just want to get it over with.

I went to the MGMAT info session last night, so far, I feel more confident with their material (they use and follow the OG) and tutors (GMAT veterans and they really follow up on their skills, seems like they take the GMAT just for fun once in a while to keep themselves sharp). They seems to be more hardcore than Kaplan.

Haven't done any research regarding PR, but I took while in HS for SAT. Didn't help much, same thing as Kaplan.

So, here are my questions (sorry for the long blabing):

1) Which test prep have you taken and how was it?

2) if I were go to the MGMAT route, should I take the classroom one or virtual one? advantages and disadvantages?

3) would MGMAT be too hard for me since I only scored in the 500's on my prep test? I need a 200-point improvement, is that unrealistic?

good luck everyone and I'll keep everyone posted on what I've decided to do..

[parore26]

Hi,
I studied on my own but I did some good research on test-preps available. If I had the money and time I would have taken VeritasPrep. They definitely got some good reviews in the blogosphere for the verbal section of the GMAT. Of the three you've listed ManhattanGMAT is undoubtedly the best amongst them. Good Luck, also search for a poll by Eric that asked people to vote on the practice tests that closely resembled the actual GMAT test.

[II]

If you look at Kaplan and ManhattanGMAT ... the main and key difference I see is that ManhattanGMAT is 100% focussed on the GMAT, whereas Kaplan have the GMAT as part of their portfolio of other topics which they cover !
So ManhattanGMAT focus 100% of their resources etc on the GMAT ... not the SAT, or Finance exams, or something else ... only the GMAT.
This is a big differentiating factor, as far as I am concerned.
Also, Stacy Koprince's posts on here have been very good ... goes to show that they have some very good instructor's on their books.
By the way, has anyone taken any of their online classes ? Any feedback ?

[Stuart@KaplanGMAT]

Well, I'm clearly going to be biased toward Kaplan.

Kaplan is the largest tesp prep company in the world (by a far margin). So, even though we don't focus solely on the GMAT, our GMAT R&D and curriculum department has more resources than any other company (even if it focuses solely on the GMAT), which is the reason why we're not limited to the OG or other GMAC published work in our materials.

However, that's not to say that we don't recognize the OG as valuable, which is why as of January 2008 Kaplan includes the OG in our materials. All students get a copy of it and it's integrated into our homework assignments. There's also a full index of all OG questions.

The above doesn't necessarily mean that Kaplan will be the best fit for you. Our classes focus on taking a strategic approach to the GMAT and we do expect our students to do a LOT of work outside of the classroom. If you have limited time to study, you may be better off purchasing practice question sets (like the Kaplan QBank, but hey, I'm still biased) and working on your own, especially since you've already taken the course once.

You really need to decide what your specific needs are and find the course of study that best fits those needs. Take a practice CAT now to determine your strengths and weaknesses. If you need a lot of help with math and grammar basics, then work on those before working on strategies. If you're OK on the basics and your biggest issue is applying your knowledge to GMAT questions (a problem faced by a lot of test takers, since question types like data sufficiency are unique to the GMAT), then look for a program that teaches you how to attack the GMAT, rather than just how to do math or form proper sentences.

Other factors to take into account are how much time you have and when you have that time (so if you take a course, you can find a schedule that fits well with your own).

Whatever you decide, good luck! If you have more questions about Kaplan, feel free to PM me.

[mayonnai5e]

You can read my review of my Veritas online + private tutoring experience on my personal blog here:

https://www.beatthegmat.com/my-blog-erro ... 99-60.html

Just do a search on the page for "veritas."

My personal tutoring experience may not be representative of every Veritas private tutor because each tutor is unique, but overall I was very thoroughly disappointed with Veritas.

I took PR for my SAT studies years ago, and I did not think it was worth the money at all. If their GMAT class is anything like their SAT class, I would advise against it.

Stacy from MGMAT is a frequent contributor to this forum and is highly respected. Although I am ambivalent about some of MGMAT's material, I still feel their materials are light years ahead of the competition particularly their CATs (with the exception of GMATPrep, which is the undisputed #1 CAT). I personally have not taken their course, but if Stacy is a good representative of the course, then MGMAT cannot be bad at all. Stacy can certainly tell you more about the live/online courses.

As for your last question, I would think MGMAT would be the best choice if you are attempting to get a 200 point leap. You need to work the hardest you can if you want to achieve such a significant gain. My lowest score was 540 on a CAT and my official score was 720 - that's a 180 point spread - so I believe it's quite possible to do a 200 point leap although this is probably very rare.

[Stacey Koprince]

Most companies offer free sessions to get to know the company's approach and teachers - I strongly recommend you take advantage of such sessions to find the best fit for you. Our company offers "open houses" (which it sounds like you've already attended) and we also allow a limited number of people to sit in on a first class session for free - this is the actual first class in a 9-week course. That should give you a good idea of whether we'd be a good option for you.

Also, if at all possible, try to sit in on free classes / events where you'll be observing the teacher who would teach your class - you have to make sure that the person's teaching style works for you.

Finally, ask questions! Tell the teacher your situation after the class and ask for advice - the way in which the person responds will tell you whether you want to be in his/her classroom.

Re: our courses, our virtual and in-person courses get similar reviews from students, and the curriculum is completely identical, so the issue there is really just your personal preference. There are some different advantages to each, so it just depends on what matters to you.

And, no, our class should not be too hard for you - I regularly have students who start off in the low 500s. We do also offer two "Foundations of Math" workshops if you feel you need to do some more basic math review before you dive into the class. Check out our web site for details on the topics covered for each workshop, but if you sign up for the course as well, then each workshop is only $95 (normally $245).

Good luck! Let us know how it goes!

[wangs700]

I just withdraw from the Kaplan course... I don't think it'd help much.. I hate that the first class is a test. MGMAT asks you to take the test before the class, so you don't waste 1 class just on taking tests.

I'm sitting in for the free virtual class tonight... i'll see how it goes. I'm leaning towards the classroom one, just because I like it better when I see an actual person to ask questions.

any suggestions on which instructor is the best in MGMAT? I sat in the info session led by Andrew Yang. He seems like he knows his stuff and funny with small jokes. Personally, I like instructors who can really give you the knowledge that u can't obtain from the books. What's the point in going to class if you can just read it yourself?

Please give me suggestions on which MGMAT instructor you've had experiece with and how was it... The MGMAT instructor bio page obvously is filled with positive testimonies.

[Stacey Koprince]

First, Andrew's also our CEO. So, yeah, he's good.

Second, I know it's going to sound totally cliche - but all of our instructors are great. We not only have incredibly strict hiring requirements (99th percentile scores, extensive prior teaching experience, etc), but we also put our teachers through more than 100 hours of training before we certify them to teach, plus we have ongoing training requirements even after we're certified, PLUS we all get rated at the end of every course by our students, and we have to average better than 4 out of 5 to keep our jobs. Anyone who doesn't get great student reviews, every single time, does not continue to teach for the company - and, yes, we really do hold to this.

And we haven't lowered our standards as we've grown. We could be twice as big as we are right now - we literally don't have enough teachers to cover all of the business that we could be doing. We know it, but we're willing to live with it rather than lower our standards - we're always going to be a relatively small company, because there just aren't that many people who will fit our requirements. It's a small pool.

[here ends the mgmat advertisement ]

So, really - the thing you should think about is simply which teacher's style is the best for you. Different people respond to different things. And since you can sit in on first classes for free, you can check different people out and go with the one you like best.

[wangs700]

No wonder! But he seems so young, I would have never thought he's so experienced already (read his CEO bio).

Most of the sit-in classes have TBD instructors.. So I guess I need to check them out before I hand in the money.

[Stacey Koprince]

You're in NYC, right? I just checked the NY and virtual courses for the next month and all but one list the instructor(s). After that, more are listed as TBD - pretty much everything is staffed at least a month out, and some of the 2-month out classes are staffed, though not all.

[wangs700]

Hi Stacey,

I'd like to thank you for all the helpful suggestions. I decided to join the NYC MGMAT class, but have trouble deciding which instructor to go with.

One of the Sunday classes I want to attend is instructed by Gregg Lachow. I couldn't find his bio on the MGMAT website. So I called the 1800#, and the operator said he's new, but this is not his first class. She doesn't know the TBD instructors either, so basically whatever that's on the website is all she knows. Also, I can't sit in any NYC classes - they don't allow it. It's understandable since I've been to the classroom and it's quite small.

If you have any bio info on Gregg, would you please let me know? Thanks!

[Stacey Koprince]

Oh, right - he's moving from Seattle to NY, so he's not there yet. I know he has extensive experience (like me, he used to work for Another Test Prep Company - we used to work for the same one, actually, but on opposite sides of the country so we didn't know each other). I was just talking to one of our Directors of Instructor Development yesterday about him - his bio should be up in the next couple of days. Let me know if you don't see it in the next few days and I'll lean on the web developer to get it up there.

[richardwang6430]

I would like to start with OG

[II]

I ended up going with ManhattanGMAT's Guided Self Study Plus package, since I cannot make the online live class times, due to being based in London and several other factors.
I have been VERY IMPRESSED so far with MGMAT. I suppose the true measure will be my performance on the actual GMAT ...
Just disappointed that I didnt register with them earlier.
MGMAT's "bread and butter" is GMAT ... that's all they do. So all their energy and resources go into the GMAT.
I can thoroughly recommend MGMAT .. without a doubt.