Nevertheless.

[TrueLie]

Hi all,

In the Manhattan SC, I saw an example:

The municipality's back-to-work program has had notable success, nevertheless, it is not suitable for a state-wide rollout for several reasons.

The answer says that "The word nevertheless is a conjunctive adverb, not a coordinating conjunction (such as and). As a result, you need to use a semicolon, not a comma, before nevertheless."

However, in the Oxford dictionary, I get this example:

The book is too long but, nonetheless, informative and entertaining.

I think that nevertheless = nonetheless. That means in some cases we can use a comma before nevertheless.

Is this true?

Thank you.

[tetura84]

When we use conjunctive adverb, the pattern is,
IC + SEMICOLON + conjunctive adverb + COMMA + IC

IC = Independent clause

But in Oxford dictionary, we don't have this pattern.

[atulmangal]

When we use conjunctive adverb, the pattern is,
IC + SEMICOLON + conjunctive adverb + COMMA + IC

IC = Independent clause

But in Oxford dictionary, we don't have this pattern.

@Tetura, i have one doubt in ur post see above in red...

TrueLie's Oxford dic. example is:--

The book is too long but, nonetheless, informative and entertaining.

In this example we do not have two IC's (like we have in Manhattan Ex)so we can not apply the pattern
SEMICOLON + conjunctive adverb in this case...

Hence, the two different sentences (from Manhattan and Oxford) are different in structure and thats why follow different rules..its irrelevant to apply same rules for both of them and...we can not say Oxford do not follow a particular structure...

This is my opinion...what u say???

[tetura84]

Atul, I did not get your question.
What I mean is, since in Oxford dictionary we don't have this pattern, we cannot use this rule here.
I am not questioning about the pattern used in Oxford (how could I ? )

For our reference, I found wiki is very good in conjunctive adverb explanation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conjunctive_adverb

[atulmangal]

Atul, I did not get your question.
What I mean is, since in Oxford dictionary we don't have this pattern, we cannot use this rule here.
I am not questioning about the pattern used in Oxford (how could I ? )

For our reference, I found wiki is very good in conjunctive adverb explanation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conjunctive_adverb

Buddy, True lie post two examples with a different sentence structures and then he based on the second one (Oxford example) he conclude that sometimes we put comma before conjunctive adverb.
His conclusion was wrong because he is comparing two different sentence structures i.e in case of 2 IC we always follow the same structure u mentioned. if the 2 clause are NOT IC then yes we can put comma before conjunctive adverb, and thats what we saw in Oxford example.

Now, i thought that you are suggesting that Oxford doesn't follow this pattern

IC + SEMICOLON + conjunctive adverb + COMMA + IC

I mean i thought that you are also carried away with the 2 completely different sentence structures and suggesting something...Or by mistake you didn't notice the different structures.
I'm sure, may be i made some mistake in understanding your point. If so m sorry for that, my bad.

But, can you please clear now that is that so that Oxford doesn't follow the pattern written above even in case of Two IC's..???

Second i have seen the list in your link plus i have seen many lists but didn't find anywhere..can you please confirm..is this word "For Example" is also a conjunctive adverb??
Because i come across a question earlier and i made that question wrong as i thought that For Example is not a conjunctive adverb...

Thanks

[Jim@Grockit]

Hi all,

In the Manhattan SC, I saw an example:

The municipality's back-to-work program has had notable success, nevertheless, it is not suitable for a state-wide rollout for several reasons.

The answer says that "The word nevertheless is a conjunctive adverb, not a coordinating conjunction (such as and). As a result, you need to use a semicolon, not a comma, before nevertheless."

However, in the Oxford dictionary, I get this example:

The book is too long but, nonetheless, informative and entertaining.

I think that nevertheless = nonetheless. That means in some cases we can use a comma before nevertheless.

Is this true?

Thank you.

I think you are taking Manhattan's claim about that one sentence and trying to make it a general truth. In that sentence you cannot have a comma before nevertheless. If Manhattan's sentence had been:

The municipality's back-to-work program has had notable success but, nevertheless, it is not suitable for a state-wide rollout for several reasons.

then it would have been fine. The issue is the presence/absence of coordinating conjunctions, not the choice/presence/absence of conjunctive adverbs.