760 (99%) beat the GMAT again after 16 years

[cpfirth]

I have an unusual situation. Don't know if there are many "mature" GMAT takers like me around, but I will try to share my experience.

I took the GMAT in 1991 and scored 710/98% (700s were rarer in those days I guess 8) ), then went on to Sloan. I used only the OG for the first test.

Now in my mid-40s I have decided to do a PhD in Economics. The school expects me to re-take the GMAT.

I am in the middle of preparing for my 2nd test (next month). What a shock for me when I first saw that the GMAT was adaptive, not to mention those new fangled essays. And all the questions seemed harder than I remember from 1991!

In this post I wanted to ask if anyone else is taking or re-taking the GMAT after such a long gap, and what advice they may have for unclogging ancient synapses.

After I have taken the test I will post my strategy (successful or not!).

Cheers
Chris

[Neo2000]

I have a 710 too so i was seriously wondering how you managed a 98percentile

Have you checked with the college what's the min score required for the Ph.D?? Given that you are pursuing such an advanced course which very few candidates actually pursue AND you are in your mid-40s meanin you hve A LOT of work-ex i'm guessin they wouldnt want too high a GMAT score. Otherwise you might as well go to INSEAD/IMD/<insert>

[aim-wsc]

I took the GMAT in 1991 and scored 710/98% (700s were rarer in those days I guess 8) ), then went on to Sloan. ............
In this post I wanted to ask if anyone else is taking or re-taking the GMAT after such a long gap, and what advice they may have for unclogging ancient synapses.

Welcome to the forums Chris
A rare case indeed! ... yuo'll be re-taking the test after 16 YEARS!

This forum has had one such member (IsisAlaska ) , you can contact her via email or PM since she's not quite active thesedays.

I think she took her 1st test in 1998 did MBA iN 98/2000 & now opted for PhD this year...

[beatthegmat]

Hi Chris:

You certainly have an interesting story! What is your target GMAT score? Also, have you taken a GMATPrep test yet?

Good luck!

[cpfirth]

Yes I think the required GMAT score won't be too high in my case. I guess anything around 650 would be enough. I am really just competing against my younger self!

I'm using GMATPrep test a bit differently and haven't gone through the whole test yet (partially because of it crashing once with about 5 questions left). My strategy is to use it to stress-test me with difficult questions. I repeatedly run it, get the first 10 questions mainly correct (some are repeat questions but it doesn't matter) then come up against a string of new and difficult questions. I find this a really good way to improve. The OG questions are generally too easy for serious learning except for the last dozen or so in each section.

My biggest problem initially was (not) to admit defeat on problems. At work you don't normally give up on issues after 2 mins, so my instinct is to solve the problem. But of course if do that I will get heavily penalised on unanswered questions.

[beatthegmat]

Yes I think the required GMAT score won't be too high in my case. I guess anything around 650 would be enough. I am really just competing against my younger self!

I'm using GMATPrep test a bit differently and haven't gone through the whole test yet (partially because of it crashing once with about 5 questions left). My strategy is to use it to stress-test me with difficult questions. I repeatedly run it, get the first 10 questions mainly correct (some are repeat questions but it doesn't matter) then come up against a string of new and difficult questions. I find this a really good way to improve. The OG questions are generally too easy for serious learning except for the last dozen or so in each section.

My biggest problem initially was (not) to admit defeat on problems. At work you don't normally give up on issues after 2 mins, so my instinct is to solve the problem. But of course if do that I will get heavily penalised on unanswered questions.

I strongly urge you not to practice with GMATPrep in that manner. The problem with that approach is that the GMATPrep question bank is limited. It's unlikely that you'll be able to run through a full test in the future without encountering repeated questions, thus skewing your score. GMATPrep is the most accurate indicator of your actual GMAT performance, moreso than any other practice test on the market, so it's useful to take these tests fresh to gauge your performance.

You seem like a very intelligent person and given your track record of GMAT success from several years ago, you should be able to do fine on the computer adaptive version. Pacing is difficult--it is difficult to give up on a question, but as you said the penalities for leaving questions unanswered are enormous.

The way I worked on my own pacing was to do lots of practice sets of 40 questions with a timer. It didn't take long for me to get used to the limited time constraints.

I think you won't have much trouble getting up to speed with the subjects tested--a 650+ seems within your reach, especially given the fact you were able to score so well on the GMAT from several years ago.

Best of luck!

[cpfirth]

>>problem with that approach is that the GMATPrep question bank is limited.

but as long as I come across new questions why should this matter? I am not using it as an indicator of my score.

the basic issue is a lack of difficult GMAT-conforming questions. if there is another source I would be glad to use it. so far I haven't found a reliable one.

[beatthegmat]

I'm curious--why aren't you interested in getting a baseline score of your current GMAT performance? That's usually one of the first things I recommend folks to do when beginning their prep since it not only (1) provides you with an overall baseline score, and (2) gives you an early indication about where your weaknesses lie. I guess that if getting a baseline isn't important to you at this time then the way you are proceeding with your prep is fine.

For quality practice materials, I would think about investing in the Kaplan, PR, and Manhattan GMAT books. You can see my book recommendations here: https://www.beatthegmat.com/books.html

Good luck!

[cpfirth]

Eric - perhaps the baseline score isn't too important for me (i) because of my first test I know I'm likely to be at least 600+ (ii) I find that doing problems quickly highlights my weaknesses (iii) I don't really need 700+ so can afford to be slightly relaxed.

The main area I am working on is the theory, tools and tricks to solve difficult questions as this will make the biggest difference to my score. Perhaps I might be eating humble pie after the test though

As a mature candidate I did find the GMAT Math Bible by Jeff Sackmann / GMAT HACKS quite a good, targeted review book.

I've just ordered 2 books after reading your books review: Sentence Correction GMAT Preparation Guide (Manhattan GMAT Preparation Guides) and Kaplan GMAT 800.

I may also be suffering from "GMAT obsession" ie spending too much time on it!
Chris

[beatthegmat]

Eric - perhaps the baseline score isn't too important for me (i) because of my first test I know I'm likely to be at least 600+ (ii) I find that doing problems quickly highlights my weaknesses (iii) I don't really need 700+ so can afford to be slightly relaxed.

The main area I am working on is the theory, tools and tricks to solve difficult questions as this will make the biggest difference to my score. Perhaps I might be eating humble pie after the test though

As a mature candidate I did find the GMAT Math Bible by Jeff Sackmann / GMAT HACKS quite a good, targeted review book.

I've just ordered 2 books after reading your books review: Sentence Correction GMAT Preparation Guide (Manhattan GMAT Preparation Guides) and Kaplan GMAT 800.

I may also be suffering from "GMAT obsession" ie spending too much time on it!
Chris

The MGMAT guide and Kaplan 800 book will definitely have a lot of difficult material for you to play with, those are smart purchases.

Careful with the GMAT obsession! If it takes a hold of you, you may find yourself interacting with this community a lot--not that I have problem with that. Actually, if you read through some of the 700-scorers in the 'I just Beat The GMAT' section, many of the folks there tend to be active contributors--teaching others seems to be an effective way to learn.

Good luck!

[cpfirth]

Just a brief review of the three books I ordered (1 more than indicated in my earlier post)

Sentence Correction Manhattan GMAT Preparation Guide
Good, concise summary. It didn't really have any startling test insights or test tips. Useful as a handy guide, to save time surfing grammar guides if nothing else. Best part of the purchase is the online access to the 6 MGMAT tests. MGMAT's website also has some good tips if you surf around it.

Kaplan GMAT 800
A bit of a disappointment. Seems to be just a series of examples, admittedly some good ones. Quite a few irritating (and useless) mini-homilies on what "an 800 test taker" should do.

The PowerScore GMAT Critical Reasoning Bible
Can't remember where I saw this recommended but it turned out to be the best of the three books. What distinguishes this is that it presents methods/tools (rather than just examples) to help you solve CR problems. If you can get through its 300 rather dry pages you actually have general techniques that apply to virtually all CR questions.

Chris

[cpfirth]

For those following the old geezer's progress, here's an update. I spent about 1 week trying very hard problems, and picking up the techniques in the explanations. To source hard problems I've been using a question set bought from GMAT Hacks plus the MGMAT Challenge problems.

The former are about the right difficulty level although have a few wrong answers. The latter tend to be too difficult but have quite a few tips, that I could not find anywhere else...so worth plowing through.

After all that theory, I moved on to exam practice. So far my results are (started 1 week ago)

MGMAT 1 720
MGMAT 2 750
GMATPrep 1 770
GMATPrep 2 780
MGMAT 3 730

I think these flatter me, especially the GMATPrep tests, where I had seen many of the Q problems before although none of the V.

After each test I review wrong and slow answers. Storing a copy (sometimes screen print) for later use.

My biggest problem now is relatively weak Q performance. I have scored 99% on the V four times, but am averaging mid-80s for Q. I am always struggling against the clock on the Q.

Although it's over 20 years since I did any maths at college, I was not expecting the Q to be such a battle. The lesson here, perhaps, is that those taking the GMAT after a big gap after graduation will need to spend a massively disproportionate time on Q.

Another problem I have is knowing when to cut losses. In MGMAT 3 I spent over 15 mins on 3 questions and got all of them wrong! I really have to learn to sacrifice a very good score for a decent score, because by trying too hard I end up with a worse score (if that makes sense).

I must say I like the MGMAT CATs. The review section (where you can see timings and explanations) is excellent. It would suit me better though if the Q questions were not quite so hard. Although it's good training, it feels mentally crushing to do each MGMAT CAT.

My test is in a few days time. My only aim now is to break 90% on the Q, as I know my V is very strong (famous last words).

Another thing I have done is change my test time from morning to afternoon, as I realised that mornings are not my best time for doing GMATs! Since I was changing the time I brought the date forward too, as I am getting to the point of diminishing returns, not to mention being slightly jaded.

[parore26]

Hi cpfirth,
You seem to be on top of your game, so I wouldn't worry too much. How are you doing in the last 1/3rd of questions in PS and DS of the Official GMAT guides. Many people state that the actual quantitative section is tougher than the questions you see in the OG books. If you're pressed for time I'd order the Official guide Quantitative review and solve the last 1/2 or 1/3rd of the questions. Good Luck.

[cpfirth]

I bought the OG Quantitative but apart from a few at the end I didn't find the questions especially challenging. My problem is usually that I can do hard Q questions but can't get the answers quickly enough, so then start to have time pressure for other questions. The MGMAT 700-800 questions are a lot harder than even the toughest OG Quantitative questions.

[Cola]

Hi cpfirth,
I had to post when I read your message. I, too, am in my 40's and have decided to pursue a PhD. I finished my Master's degree 16 years ago, so I know how it feels trying to study for this crazy thing they call GMAT after so many years in the work world. It's weird to be doing homework, but isn't it kind of fun to have such a concrete challenge? No politics, no budgetary concerns, no red tape, just you against the test.
The good news is that I wrote the test last November and scored a 760 (99th percentile, Q49, V44), with a 6 AWA. Geezers rule!
I also had to work hard on the quantitative, with the verbal seeming a lot easier (except for SC in my case). My GMAT Prep tests all showed a 99% in verbal, but I found the exam harder in that area. It may have been a stamina issue. I was pretty exhausted after the AWA and quant. sections, and it seemed really hard to concentrate. I had lots of sugar in the breaks, but apparently not enough.
For the quant. section, it really is true that the key is cutting your losses early. I took my time on the first few questions, then panicked when I realized I was behind. I rocketed through questions left and right, and ended up with 30 minutes for the last 5 questions! I thought I had really messed up, but I ended up with a 49. I was not being meticulous. So don't demand perfection from yourself - the test can be forgiving. If it makes you feel any better, tell yourself that the ones which you move on quickly from are simply the non-scoring ones.
I do wonder about your impression that a 650 would be enough for most programs. I know the ones I've looked into do have averages of around 700. But I certainly didn't do exhaustive research on this!
Anyway, I'm sure you'll do great. You've put the work in, and are way more prepared than most people who take the test. Everyone on this forum is here because they're the type who want to arm themselves well. You have done that. Lots and lots of people simple read the OG and take their chances. But you, you're ready.
I'll be watching to see your results...