What to do between now and the fall

[thompsondr1]

I'm planning on applying to MBA programs this fall and would appreciate your your advice about whether the I schools I plan on applying to are realistic and what I can do between now and this fall to help my chances. A little about me...

28 yr. old caucasian male
740 GMAT (V92%, Q88%, 5.5)
2.75 from the University of Texas (major - Philosophy and minor - Business Administration)
After college I taught English abroad for 3 years, then have worked at an insurance brokerage firm that only works with PE firms for 2 years
I've had a decent amount of face time with clients and worked on some special projects but nothing amazing
2 promotions and pay raises
No professional management experience
Community Service chairman for local UT alumni assoc.

The schools I am considering are NYU, Yale, UVA, and Cornell. Last year I applied to Chicago and UVA but was rejected at both. Since then I have had one promotion and taken 3 classes (Beg. Corporate Finance, Inter. Corporate Finance & Statistics), making an A in each. I am considering taking another (Business Valuation) but am wondering if my efforts wouldn't be better spent elsewhere. Do you see a big difference between 3 or 4 classes for an alternative transcript? I took 2 accounting and 2 calculus classes in college and did decent. Obviously I am trying to make up for my lackluster grades. What should I work on before this fall (outside of work)? Are these schools realistic or am I dreaming?

Another quick question: I want to go into asset management post-graduation but I have no experience and finance is not exactly booming right now. Should I focus on something else on my essays (such as staying in my field)?

Thank you for your time,

Ryan

[Graham]

Dear Ryan,

Thanks for your post!

First of all, I'm really pleased to see that you are taking steps to address your weaknesses and effectively planning ahead for the coming admissions cycle. You'd be surprised how many applicants wait until the last minute to take stock of their profile, etc.

In terms of your current strategy, you are smart to have taken three courses and earned As thus far - as the 2.75 ugrad GPA is clearly your biggest liability at this point. As to whether you should add a fourth course to your alternative transcript, I actually think it couldn't hurt (since a 2.75 is very low for the top b-schools and the more evidence you have that you are now a "4.0" kind of guy, the better off you will be).

In terms of what you might take, I'd ideally need to see your ugrad transcripts to best understand where you might want to focus. My one fear with your course selection thus far is that it veers more towards actual MBA coursework than it does towards the foundational areas that b-schools look for (calculus, accounting, economics, statistics). I know you studied business as an undergrad and that you have taken one statistics course since, so you don't want to necessarily retread (especially if you secured As in the calculus and accounting courses you took at UT). But if you didn't do terribly well in these areas, you might benefit from throwing a calculus refresher or accounting course into the mix.

As to what else you might do to address the grades, I'd certainly work on an optional essay for your applications to explain the UT performance and highlight the coursework completed since. You'll need to portray a "that was then, this is now" scenario, stressing the degree to which you have matured, etc. You'll want your recommenders from work (and potentially from teaching abroad) to be aware of this messaging too, so that they can reinforce the level of maturity you have, your high intellectual aptitude, etc.

Overall, you seem to have the makings of a solid profile - with the exception of the GPA. Your GMAT is excellent and your work history is fairly unique (I'd love to hear more about where you taught English and what that entailed in terms of 'leading' your students, etc - perhaps this experience was your 'coming of age' and could be positioned as such?). I also suspect you have some additional outside activities and hobbies, but the UT alumni association position seems to be promising.

As to your question about your goals, I'm not so sure that this would have played a major factor in this past year's results, but shifting things to be more closely in line with your experience to date likely wouldn't hurt. This is the sort of thing I'd need to discuss with you at length. It would also be helpful to see last year's applications to get a sense as to what may have gone wrong from a positioning standpoint.

Overall, I'm glad to see that you are taking steps to improve your profile and address the key weakness. On some levels, I am not so certain that you shouldn't be looking at a range of schools next season (inlcuding Chicago Booth). Meaning, I agree that you need to cast a wider net, but am not so sure that a great application couldn't open doors at a very top program.

Feel free to send a resume to Clear Admit if you'd like to work with us on a reapplication strategy or are looking for a feedback report on last year's applications. You can contact us at [email protected].

Best of luck,

Graham

[thompsondr1]

Hi Graham,

Thank you for the thorough reply. Below are the grades I made in college in math-related classes.

Geometry A
Microeconomics C
Macroeconomics C
Calculus I C
Calculus II B
Physical Science I A
Physical Science II B
Accounting B
Symbolic Logic B

As you can see I didn't do terribly bad, but not that great either. One reason I'm hesitant to take another mathematics class is that it would have to be online (as there seems to be a lack of summer math classes taught in SF). I've heard that sometimes online classes are looked at with skepticism. What's your view? On the other hand, business valuation is something that I'm actually interested in, will probably be writing about in my essays, involves a lot of math, and I know that there is good teacher leading the class.

I think what really hurt me was the grades and the spotty work history (I worked in a legal firm for a year after school, then taught English in Spain and the Czech Republic, now work in insurance but want to move into asset management). Hopefully with another year of work experience (including a promotion) and a few more classes I have helped to mitigate this. I also worked full-time during most of college, mentioned this in my optional essay last year, and plan on doing the same this fall. I am also a competitive cyclist but does that look like to much of a loner sport (which it's not) to include in my app?

And one last question that I'm sure you've been asked numerous time but that many people are interested in: what is your prediction of the competitiveness of this coming years application pool (relative to last)? Obviously more people have been laid off and might be looking to going back to school but also there has been a lot of bad press about MBAs lately (can't get internships or jobs, did they (MBAs) help cause this mess, financial problems for international and domestic applicants, etc,).

Thanks again for the insight and when I start to put together my application, I will contact you.

[Graham]

Ryan,

Thanks for your reply. I've offered some additional thoughts below:

Below are the grades I made in college in math-related classes.
Geometry A
Microeconomics C
Macroeconomics C
Calculus I C
Calculus II B
Physical Science I A
Physical Science II B
Accounting B
Symbolic Logic B

As you can see I didn't do terribly bad, but not that great either. One reason I'm hesitant to take another mathematics class is that it would have to be online (as there seems to be a lack of summer math classes taught in SF). I've heard that sometimes online classes are looked at with skepticism. What's your view? On the other hand, business valuation is something that I'm actually interested in, will probably be writing about in my essays, involves a lot of math, and I know that there is good teacher leading the class.
>>Thanks for sharing the details of your quant. coursework. The clear weak spots are micro and macro economics, both of which serve as essential foundations in business school. Your 'C' in Calculus I is a liability as well, although it is somewhat mitigated by the 'B' you received in Calculus II. In short, you may want to look into taking micro and/or macro and earning As.

>>Keep in mind that the adcom has a strong belief in the fact that calculus, statistics, accounting and micro/macro are fundamental foundations for business school (this is why each of these courses is covered in pre-term or the first semester, to ensure that students are 100% up to speed and solid in these areas).

>>While it's clearly more interesting to take a business valuation course, the point of an alternative transcript is NOT to replicate specialty/elective coursework that one might see in business school. It is to prove to the adcom that you are sound in the building-blocks of management education. Given your ugrad results in economics, this is clearly an area you should seek to address.

>>As to online vs. in-classroom offerings, this isn't as a big of a deal as you might think. The key is that if you choose to to take an online course, it should be with a reputable academic institution. For example, both UC Berkeley and the UCLA Extension School offer excellent online courses that many MBA applicants have taken over the years.

I think what really hurt me was the grades and the spotty work history (I worked in a legal firm for a year after school, then taught English in Spain and the Czech Republic, now work in insurance but want to move into asset management). Hopefully with another year of work experience (including a promotion) and a few more classes I have helped to mitigate this. I also worked full-time during most of college, mentioned this in my optional essay last year, and plan on doing the same this fall. I am also a competitive cyclist but does that look like to much of a loner sport (which it's not) to include in my app?
>>It's hard to say exactly what may have gone wrong this past year, but I agree that your academic background and somewhat circuitous career path to date would have been legitimate concerns. At the same time, if positioned properly, your unique career path could be more of an asset than a liability.

>>Beyond the outside coursework and solid GMAT result, I think that mentioning your full-time work during college is a good strategy to mitigate the grades issue.

>>Being a competitive cyclist should be a major advantage in your profile. While some may view this as a solo sport, the onus will simply fall on you to accurately describe the nature of training (in group rides) as well as the way that races often function (teams, the peloton, etc). I presume you've made contact with the cycling/outdoors club heads at each of your target programs?

And one last question that I'm sure you've been asked numerous time but that many people are interested in: what is your prediction of the competitiveness of this coming years application pool (relative to last)? Obviously more people have been laid off and might be looking to going back to school but also there has been a lot of bad press about MBAs lately (can't get internships or jobs, did they (MBAs) help cause this mess, financial problems for international and domestic applicants, etc,).
>>I expect this coming year to be remain highly competitive, but it will be hard to top this past admissions cycle (which was one of the biggest on record). Of course, the truth is that there are still a lot of folks in the applicant pool who are facing unemployment/potential unemployment and looking at the MBA as a way to increase their skill set and exit the job market for a couple of years (ideally graduating when times are a bit better). In addition, the sheer demographics favor continued high volume - be it from the children of the baby-boomers who are increasingly present in the domestic (US) pipeline to the countless Chinese and Indian young professionals who find an international MBA appealing.

>>At the same time, given the credit crisis and economic climate, I am not ruling out a potential decline in some international markets - where candiates may fear their ability to finance the degree or remain in the US to work following graduation. [Of course, as most of the top schools have recently rolled out new no-co-signer loan programs for internationals, it could be that interest will pick back up on that front.]

>>As to the bad press about the MBA degree itself, I think that most intelligent readers know that blaming the financial crisis on the MBA degree is an overly simplistic explanation, and that the roots of the problems we see today go far beyond the basic teaching in the MBA classroom. In short, I suspect that the true value of a degree from a top-tier MBA program remains strong - particularly among the group of people that would be likely to consider the degree in the first place.

>>Finally, with regards to the job market for MBAs, this is by no means the first boom/bust cycle the market has seen - although I recognize that it is far more serious. The point is that the media has always enjoyed publishing articles about MBA placement stats (especially when they look grim), but even in the days following September 11th and the complete collapse of the internet bubble, programs like HBS and Wharton were finding jobs for 80%+ of their graduates within three months of graduation. If anything, having an MBA from a top program during difficult times can give you the needed edge when competing against other candidates who haven't pursued further education.

Thanks again for the insight and when I start to put together my application, I will contact you.
>>I look forward to hearing from you. Best of luck with your coursework in the interim!

Regards,

Graham