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by pradeepkaushal9518 » Mon Jul 12, 2010 8:57 pm
Everyone who has graduated from TopNotch High School has an intelligence quotient (IQ) of over 120. Most students with an IQ of over 120 and all students with an IQ of over 150 who apply to one or more Ivy League universities are accepted to at least one of them.

The statements above, if true, best support which of the following conclusions?

A. Every graduate of TopNotch High School with an IQ of 150 has been accepted to at least one Ivy-League school.

B. If a person is a high-school graduate and has an IQ of less than 100, he or she could not have been a student at
Top Notch High School.

C. If a person has an IQ of 130 and is attending an Ivy-League school, it is possible for him or her to have graduated
from TopNotch High School.

D. At least one graduate from Top Notch high school who has applied to at least one Ivy-League university has been
accepted to one of them.

E.If a high-school graduate has an IQ of 150 and is not attending an Ivy-League school, then he or she did not apply
to
one of them.

plz explain oa and explanations later
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by barcebal » Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:25 pm
I always arrange my CR problems with this frame of mind

Fact + Unstated Assumption = Conclusion

Or verbally, we can express this as "BECAUSE (insert fact), then (insert conclusion)" Once again the assumption is not stated.

The key is to not question the facts but, generally to question the unstated or inferred assumption that arrives to the conclusion stated.

This question is basically pure facts and wants you to choose a conclusion

A. This answer simply restates a fact, which should not be disputed in CR problems. You can't have the premise=the conclusion. It would be like saying the "dog is black; therefore the dog is black" They want the CONCLUSION and this just isn'ta conclusion. WRONG

B. The underlying assumption is that because TopNotch students have high IQs they have a good shot at getting into an Ivy League. This answer says BECAUSE a person has an IQ of less than 100, the person couldn't be a student at TopNotch. The "BECAUSE" doesn't match the facts in the passage. WRONG

C. This statement says because a person has an IQ of 130, it is possible that they graduated from Top Notch. While this may be true, the passage doesn't BEST support this. Once again look at the BECAUSE. Because a person has an IQ of 130, it is possible that they graduated from Top Notch. The because used in this answer doesn't match the because (or facts) given in the passage. WRONG

D. Doesn't give us a because. This is a good sign because they are asking for a CONCLUSION! Use the facts from the passage to make a sentence begining with BECAUSE. "Because everyone at TNHS has an IQ over 120 and because most students with an IQ over 120 that apply to an IVY LEAGUE get in...., then at least one graduate from TNHS should get into an Ivy League. It works. CORRECT

E. This statement doesn't even mention TNHS so that's a red flag that it is irrelevant.
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by kvcpk » Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:10 pm
I attacked this CR in a very simple approach. Just go by the given facts. Do not assume anything.
Facts:
Everyone who has graduated from TopNotch High School has an intelligence quotient (IQ) of over 120.
Most students with an IQ of over 120 and all students with an IQ of over 150 who apply to one or more Ivy League universities are accepted to at least one of them.

A: Facts are about "Ivy league universities". Not "IVY league schools" - OUT
B. "he or she could not have been a student at Top Notch High School. ". Facts tell us only about IQ of studensts who graduated from Top Notch HIgh school. Not about all the students in the school. - OUT
C. Once again "Ivy-League school" - OUT
D. Looks perfect. This is what is clearly supposed by the facts.
E. Once agian "Ivy-League school" - OUT

pick D.
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by vijaynaik » Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:22 pm
even i thought of D on the 1st look.

But i don't see why A can't be correct. It doesn't say TNHS has students with IQ > 150. It just says students have IQ > 120. And then generalizes that MOST students with IQ>120 and ALL students with IQ > 150 get into the ivy colleges.

So we can draw a conclusion from above that students with IQ > 150 from TNHS have been accepted in Ivy colleges.
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by vijaynaik » Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:25 pm
i din't notice the school vs universities difference. In that case D is correct :-)
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by pradeepkaushal9518 » Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:32 pm
like u guys i have also selected D but my answer was wrong. oa is something different. i am waiting for some experts for reply
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by kvcpk » Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:41 pm
pradeepkaushal9518 wrote:like u guys i have also selected D but my answer was wrong. oa is something different. i am waiting for some experts for reply
Totally Stumped.. Difficult question indeed. Look here for Ron's explanation:

https://www.manhattangmat.com/forums/eve ... t3461.html
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by kvcpk » Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:49 pm
My question is How can we assume that "IVY league University" and "IVY league svhool" are the same?
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by ballubalraj » Tue Jul 13, 2010 12:26 am
I faced the same issue. While solving this CR, I thought Ivy School and Ivy University are two different things, and the answer choices purposefully changed it so that whoever does not notice the difference, would be penalized.
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by raunakrajan » Tue Jul 13, 2010 7:01 am
kvcpk wrote:
pradeepkaushal9518 wrote:like u guys i have also selected D but my answer was wrong. oa is something different. i am waiting for some experts for reply
Totally Stumped.. Difficult question indeed. Look here for Ron's explanation:

https://www.manhattangmat.com/forums/eve ... t3461.html
i still din get why Ivy league schools are considered ! the excerpt doesnt specify,
saw Ron Purewal's reasoning, not convinced yet.. can anyone please explain this one!
Thanks
Raunak
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by kvcpk » Tue Jul 13, 2010 7:23 am
raunakrajan wrote:
kvcpk wrote:
pradeepkaushal9518 wrote:like u guys i have also selected D but my answer was wrong. oa is something different. i am waiting for some experts for reply
Totally Stumped.. Difficult question indeed. Look here for Ron's explanation:

https://www.manhattangmat.com/forums/eve ... t3461.html
i still din get why Ivy league schools are considered ! the excerpt doesnt specify,
saw Ron Purewal's reasoning, not convinced yet.. can anyone please explain this one!
Thanks
Raunak
Hi Raunak,
I PM'ed Stacey about this question. Lets wait for the response.

Cheers!!
Praveen
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by gmatsensei » Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:00 am
CR is not exactly my strong point, but here's my take on this:
Everyone who has graduated from TopNotch High School has an intelligence quotient (IQ) of over 120. Most students with an IQ of over 120 and all students with an IQ of over 150 who apply to one or more Ivy League universities are accepted to at least one of them.

The statements above, if true, best support which of the following conclusions?
A. Every graduate of TopNotch High School with an IQ of 150 has been accepted to at least one Ivy-League school.
Do NOT eliminate this choice on the basis of extreme words. The actual problem is that the graduates would only have been accepted if they had applied. We don't know whether all the graduates of TopNotch applied to Ivy schools. In fact, we don't even know if anyone from TopNotch applied. A is OUT!
B. If a person is a high-school graduate and has an IQ of less than 100, he or she could not have been a student at
Top Notch High School.
Person could have been a student at Top Notch, dropped out and then graduated from another school. B is OUT!
C. If a person has an IQ of 130 and is attending an Ivy-League school, it is possible for him or her to have graduated
from TopNotch High School.
Now, the keyword here is possible. Though this keyword rarely appears on the GMAT, when it does, it creates hell. Why? Coz almost always anything is possible unless explicitly stated in the premise. Just take another look at the answer, take a look at the argument, and your first line of thinking should be "Yeah, sure it's possible... why not?"
So, C's a keeper... moving on...
D. At least one graduate from Top Notch high school who has applied to at least one Ivy-League university has been
accepted to one of them.
What do we know? All TopNotch grads have IQ > 120; Most 120+ who applied to Ivy have been accepted.
Most never means all. Just so that you understand this line of reasoning, lemme give you an example of a data set:
10 people graduated from TopNotch; 1000000 people have an IQ greater than 120 and applied to Ivy schools

Try and reason based on the above data set. You'll be able to see why the answer choice should be ruled out.
Remember, most, some, many... they don't mean anything without numbers...
ALL, NONE give you a much better idea of the data set
D is OUT!
E.If a high-school graduate has an IQ of 150 and is not attending an Ivy-League school, then he or she did not apply
to
IQ = 150. We only know that all the grads who applied and who had IQ > 150 got admitted.
> 150 does NOT cover = 150
E is OUT!

So, we are left with choice C as the only viable answer. Let me know if you any of my explanations were not lucid.


-GMATSensei
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by Stacey Koprince » Sun Jul 18, 2010 5:08 pm
Received your PM! Okay, so this is somewhat loose wording based on conventions among native speakers. Technically, a university is one type of school, though the two are often used fairly interchangeably. An "Ivy League" university is part of a particular sub-set of universities. As it turns out, there are no other types of school that can be described as Ivy League - only certain universities are Ivy League. If you know that, then you know that an Ivy League school must be an Ivy League university.

But this test shouldn't assume that you know that ahead of time, especially as it's something that native speakers from the U.S. would likely know and others may not - there shouldn't be an advantage like that for one subset of test-takers. I'll submit this one for a "language revision."
Please note: I do not use the Private Messaging system! I will not see any PMs that you send to me!!

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by kvcpk » Sun Jul 18, 2010 8:58 pm
Stacey Koprince wrote:Received your PM! Okay, so this is somewhat loose wording based on conventions among native speakers. Technically, a university is one type of school, though the two are often used fairly interchangeably. An "Ivy League" university is part of a particular sub-set of universities. As it turns out, there are no other types of school that can be described as Ivy League - only certain universities are Ivy League. If you know that, then you know that an Ivy League school must be an Ivy League university.

But this test shouldn't assume that you know that ahead of time, especially as it's something that native speakers from the U.S. would likely know and others may not - there shouldn't be an advantage like that for one subset of test-takers. I'll submit this one for a "language revision."
Thanks Stacey!! That helps!!
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