Just retook GMAT, got the same score, but diff splits

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Wow, I spent an hour typing up my first post and it got lost.

I want to thank beatthegmat for a great community and the encouragement everyone gives to each other. I'd like to share my recent GMAT experience, and get some advice on how to continue my quest.

I took the GMAT back in 2008. I had taken the MGMAT 9 week live course prior. My instructor was actually Stacey Koprince before she moved to Montreal. My background is engineering, so my math is decently strong. I'm a native English speaker, so I have all the tools to score well on the GMAT. My target score back then was just to get 700 or above. My actual score was 640 (q44 v33). I had to be honest with myself and realize that this score was close to what I had gotten on my MGMAT CATs, which were in the mid 600s. However I feel like I can do better because I fell into old bad habits and had to guess on the last 5 on the quant. I definitely needed to work on my timing strategy.

The GMAT did take a big psychological toll on me because I did feel like I could ever crack 700. I don't want to say I'm a bad test taker because as plenty of people here have proven, the GMAT is beatable. I avoided the GMAT for a year and a half until 2 months ago when I decided to seriously have another go at it. I signed up for my test, which was this past Saturday, giving me 2 months to study.

I still have all my MGMAT study guides, and all 3 OG11. In addition, I got the 3 OG12. I even hired a private tutor to help me because I was a little afraid that 2 months might not have been enough time for me to study. He was really helpful and knew as an engineer, I was too detail oriented. My problems in the past was running out of time on the quant, despite my true abilities in math. He definitely knew I was rushing through problems, making silly mistakes, and not being organized.

After my sessions with him ended, I had one month to apply what I learned to the OG problems and start doing practice tests. I returned back to MGMAT and took one of their practice tests.
720 (q47 v41) Wow! Like I mentioned before, I had never broken the 700 barrier before, and here I did on my first shot on my new study strategy. I do feel like MGMAT quant is harder, but their verbal is a easier than the real GMAT or OG.

I kept a steady pace going through OG problems and the next week I took a Kaplan CAT.
650 (q42 v41)
I was OK with this because most people score much higher on their actual test than their Kaplan one.

About a week later I returned to the GMATprep. This should give me a close assessment of my progress.
740 (q49 v41). I do remember a SC question I recognized from the OG, but nevertheless, I was estatic and feeling very confident. I had finished the OG12 by this time and was working on going through the 2 supplementary books. I had about a week and half before my test.

The week before my test, I finished both books on Tuesday, but I may have emphasized way more on quantity than quality, because I was feeling a little burned out. I made the mistake of taking my last practice CAT 3 days before my actual test. That was just the beginning of my spiral of doom.

I put a lot of pressure on myself, and I overworry and do not handle stress well. My target score now is 720+. My next GMATprep was "only" a 710 (q49 v39), but I freaked out because I was doing worse now. I did not think rationally, so the next day, Thursday, I implusively took another practice test, thinking that if I scored at least 720, I would keep my confidence and be stress free. Boy was that a dumb plan. My next GMATprep score was 690 (q50 v35). If you thought I overreacted to a 710, imagine what happened when I dropped below 690. I was a total wreck, and I tried to compensate it by cramming. My friends said I was burnt out and needed to relax. In fact, they said I had to do nothing on Friday. So Friday, after I realized nothing I was studying in the morning was going to matter, I decided to just avoid anything to do with the GMAT. That was good, and I went to bed early because my test was 8AM Saturday. However, I did not get a good night's sleep.

I woke up early, and was still kind of tired, but I forced myself to be alert. I went to the testing center early and checked in. Since I've done this before, there were no surprises. I wasn't feeling well rested, but I did eat breakfast and this test was too important for me to fall apart, so I did my best to keep myself alert.

The essays went well. I did not feel rushed nor pressured. I scored 5.5 on the AWA previously, so I wasn't worried. I was hoping to get into a groove for real challenges ahead. I took my break and came back early.

I had 30 sec to spare before my quant and I was feeling pretty confident. If anything, my quant scores during my practice exams were very consistent. However, I saw the first problem and I did not know how to do it. Keep in mind I have all the OG11 and OG12 books as well as all the MGMAT study guides, and I have never seen anything like this problem. This was the first problem!!! I tried to keep it together and made my best guess to move on. Stacey teaches all her students that is it possible to recover on the GMAT from getting early questions wrong as long as you avoid going on bad streaks. I continued on, but I realized that I was going too fast. I slowed down for the last 10 problems or so, but I spent two much time on the 2nd to last problem and for sure go the last problem wrong. Nevertheless I had to shake it off because verbal was next and my best practice GMAT was when I scored the highest on the verbal.

I thought verbal was OK. My pacing was consistent. I thought one RC passage was hard, and some SC came down to idioms. There were a few CR which I struggled between two answers. When I finally finished, I was hoping at least 700. My goal is really 720+ and honestly, at the time, if I scored a 700, I would have retaken it again based on my practice exam scores.

To my horror, my score was 640 (q42 v36). The same exact score as before 2 years ago, but this time my verbal percentile was higher, which NEVER happens. I felt like dying. After the shock, I just wanted to get out of the testing center. No tangible improvement at all. 2 months studying wasted. What hurts more is that I cannot do anything about it because I am moving in less than a week. I won't be able to retake the GMAT for at least a few months.

I would dearly appreciate any advice or encourage from the community. Was this a disastrous case of burnout? I am very afraid that if it wasn't being overstressed, maybe I am not cut out for the GMAT and there is something fundamentally wrong with my study habits. The first quant problem I got definitely made me doubt my study materials because after all, even the OG problems are technically all retired, and the real GMAT will throw out anything it wants at you.

I definitely focused way too much on quantity over quality. Forcing all the OG problems did not really help me. I really did not gain much from doing them other than checking someone off my studying to do list. In addition, doing 2 practice tests within 3 days of the real test was a big mistake. I overreacted and tried to overcompensate for it, but it blew up in my face. I also might have succumbed to extreme anxiety as I vividly remember messing up on multiplying double digit numbers and adding fractions. Finally, my test was at 8AM, and I am not a morning person. I never took any of my practice tests at 8AM. Combined with a poor night's worth of sleep, could this have made my score plummet 100 points? It seems very extreme, but if that's possible, I would definitely focus on not overwhelming myself next time and not worry that I don't have the inherent ability to beat the GMAT.

I can best hope that the third time's the charm, but I have read that a 4th time is not a big deal. I want to reach my goal, and this time around, I really felt like I was there. If you were to ask me a week ago, where I thought I was, I was confidently say I was in the 700 boundary level. Never would I have thought I perform so poorly.

What do you guys think I should do? I'm going to take a break from the GMAT, but I don't want to get too rusty. I'm not going to apply for business school for about a year and half, so I don't have the pressure of getting the GMAT done during application deadlines. Do you guys think my practice tests are proof enough I can do it, and I just crashed and burned at the end? I do practice with the essays (Stacey was my instructor).

I'm recovering from the sting a bit since I can't really do anything about it for now. My mind is in such a blur and I'm heavily doubting myself. I feel like I've forgotten everything, and I can't even do some D/S I used to be able to crank out with ease. I'm so upset with myself and it's been a wild rollercoaster ride. I wanted to beat the GMAT so badly you wouldn't believe it. I dragged it on too long and this was my chance to close the door on it.

Thank you for reading this and understanding my plight. I could use any advice no matter how harsh the criticism. I need all the help I can get. Never give up, right?
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by nikhilkatira » Mon May 31, 2010 2:50 am
poiupoiu wrote:Wow, I spent an hour typing up my first post and it got lost.

I want to thank beatthegmat for a great community and the encouragement everyone gives to each other. I'd like to share my recent GMAT experience, and get some advice on how to continue my quest.

I took the GMAT back in 2008. I had taken the MGMAT 9 week live course prior. My instructor was actually Stacey Koprince before she moved to Montreal. My background is engineering, so my math is decently strong. I'm a native English speaker, so I have all the tools to score well on the GMAT. My target score back then was just to get 700 or above. My actual score was 640 (q44 v33). I had to be honest with myself and realize that this score was close to what I had gotten on my MGMAT CATs, which were in the mid 600s. However I feel like I can do better because I fell into old bad habits and had to guess on the last 5 on the quant. I definitely needed to work on my timing strategy.

The GMAT did take a big psychological toll on me because I did feel like I could ever crack 700. I don't want to say I'm a bad test taker because as plenty of people here have proven, the GMAT is beatable. I avoided the GMAT for a year and a half until 2 months ago when I decided to seriously have another go at it. I signed up for my test, which was this past Saturday, giving me 2 months to study.

I still have all my MGMAT study guides, and all 3 OG11. In addition, I got the 3 OG12. I even hired a private tutor to help me because I was a little afraid that 2 months might not have been enough time for me to study. He was really helpful and knew as an engineer, I was too detail oriented. My problems in the past was running out of time on the quant, despite my true abilities in math. He definitely knew I was rushing through problems, making silly mistakes, and not being organized.

After my sessions with him ended, I had one month to apply what I learned to the OG problems and start doing practice tests. I returned back to MGMAT and took one of their practice tests.
720 (q47 v41) Wow! Like I mentioned before, I had never broken the 700 barrier before, and here I did on my first shot on my new study strategy. I do feel like MGMAT quant is harder, but their verbal is a easier than the real GMAT or OG.

I kept a steady pace going through OG problems and the next week I took a Kaplan CAT.
650 (q42 v41)
I was OK with this because most people score much higher on their actual test than their Kaplan one.

About a week later I returned to the GMATprep. This should give me a close assessment of my progress.
740 (q49 v41). I do remember a SC question I recognized from the OG, but nevertheless, I was estatic and feeling very confident. I had finished the OG12 by this time and was working on going through the 2 supplementary books. I had about a week and half before my test.

The week before my test, I finished both books on Tuesday, but I may have emphasized way more on quantity than quality, because I was feeling a little burned out. I made the mistake of taking my last practice CAT 3 days before my actual test. That was just the beginning of my spiral of doom.

I put a lot of pressure on myself, and I overworry and do not handle stress well. My target score now is 720+. My next GMATprep was "only" a 710 (q49 v39), but I freaked out because I was doing worse now. I did not think rationally, so the next day, Thursday, I implusively took another practice test, thinking that if I scored at least 720, I would keep my confidence and be stress free. Boy was that a dumb plan. My next GMATprep score was 690 (q50 v35). If you thought I overreacted to a 710, imagine what happened when I dropped below 690. I was a total wreck, and I tried to compensate it by cramming. My friends said I was burnt out and needed to relax. In fact, they said I had to do nothing on Friday. So Friday, after I realized nothing I was studying in the morning was going to matter, I decided to just avoid anything to do with the GMAT. That was good, and I went to bed early because my test was 8AM Saturday. However, I did not get a good night's sleep.

I woke up early, and was still kind of tired, but I forced myself to be alert. I went to the testing center early and checked in. Since I've done this before, there were no surprises. I wasn't feeling well rested, but I did eat breakfast and this test was too important for me to fall apart, so I did my best to keep myself alert.

The essays went well. I did not feel rushed nor pressured. I scored 5.5 on the AWA previously, so I wasn't worried. I was hoping to get into a groove for real challenges ahead. I took my break and came back early.

I had 30 sec to spare before my quant and I was feeling pretty confident. If anything, my quant scores during my practice exams were very consistent. However, I saw the first problem and I did not know how to do it. Keep in mind I have all the OG11 and OG12 books as well as all the MGMAT study guides, and I have never seen anything like this problem. This was the first problem!!! I tried to keep it together and made my best guess to move on. Stacey teaches all her students that is it possible to recover on the GMAT from getting early questions wrong as long as you avoid going on bad streaks. I continued on, but I realized that I was going too fast. I slowed down for the last 10 problems or so, but I spent two much time on the 2nd to last problem and for sure go the last problem wrong. Nevertheless I had to shake it off because verbal was next and my best practice GMAT was when I scored the highest on the verbal.

I thought verbal was OK. My pacing was consistent. I thought one RC passage was hard, and some SC came down to idioms. There were a few CR which I struggled between two answers. When I finally finished, I was hoping at least 700. My goal is really 720+ and honestly, at the time, if I scored a 700, I would have retaken it again based on my practice exam scores.

To my horror, my score was 640 (q42 v36). The same exact score as before 2 years ago, but this time my verbal percentile was higher, which NEVER happens. I felt like dying. After the shock, I just wanted to get out of the testing center. No tangible improvement at all. 2 months studying wasted. What hurts more is that I cannot do anything about it because I am moving in less than a week. I won't be able to retake the GMAT for at least a few months.

I would dearly appreciate any advice or encourage from the community. Was this a disastrous case of burnout? I am very afraid that if it wasn't being overstressed, maybe I am not cut out for the GMAT and there is something fundamentally wrong with my study habits. The first quant problem I got definitely made me doubt my study materials because after all, even the OG problems are technically all retired, and the real GMAT will throw out anything it wants at you.

I definitely focused way too much on quantity over quality. Forcing all the OG problems did not really help me. I really did not gain much from doing them other than checking someone off my studying to do list. In addition, doing 2 practice tests within 3 days of the real test was a big mistake. I overreacted and tried to overcompensate for it, but it blew up in my face. I also might have succumbed to extreme anxiety as I vividly remember messing up on multiplying double digit numbers and adding fractions. Finally, my test was at 8AM, and I am not a morning person. I never took any of my practice tests at 8AM. Combined with a poor night's worth of sleep, could this have made my score plummet 100 points? It seems very extreme, but if that's possible, I would definitely focus on not overwhelming myself next time and not worry that I don't have the inherent ability to beat the GMAT.

I can best hope that the third time's the charm, but I have read that a 4th time is not a big deal. I want to reach my goal, and this time around, I really felt like I was there. If you were to ask me a week ago, where I thought I was, I was confidently say I was in the 700 boundary level. Never would I have thought I perform so poorly.

What do you guys think I should do? I'm going to take a break from the GMAT, but I don't want to get too rusty. I'm not going to apply for business school for about a year and half, so I don't have the pressure of getting the GMAT done during application deadlines. Do you guys think my practice tests are proof enough I can do it, and I just crashed and burned at the end? I do practice with the essays (Stacey was my instructor).

I'm recovering from the sting a bit since I can't really do anything about it for now. My mind is in such a blur and I'm heavily doubting myself. I feel like I've forgotten everything, and I can't even do some D/S I used to be able to crank out with ease. I'm so upset with myself and it's been a wild rollercoaster ride. I wanted to beat the GMAT so badly you wouldn't believe it. I dragged it on too long and this was my chance to close the door on it.

Thank you for reading this and understanding my plight. I could use any advice no matter how harsh the criticism. I need all the help I can get. Never give up, right?

According to me morning slot is the main reason for your performance.
Best,
Nikhil H. Katira

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by uwhusky » Mon May 31, 2010 7:04 am
Most people perform better in the morning than in the afternoon, and even though I was a night person, I can tell you right now that my mind is still better during the morning.

I think there are couple factors that may caused you to underperform.

-Taking the CAT right before your actual test. There's a thread in the GMAT Strategy forum discussing why it may be a bad idea.
-Last minute pressure on yourself due to the underperformance in the last minute CATs. Instead of reviewing notes in the last two weeks, you were busy taking CATs and stressing about their scores. You went from mentally ready to being stressed out, and I think you were beaten psychologically as oppose to the lack of performance.

IMO, after you scored 720 on GMATPrep, you should have just moved on from taking CATs.

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by uwhusky » Mon May 31, 2010 9:08 am
By the way, I think you know the materials very well. Step away from the GMAT for few weeks and just forget about it. Come back with fresh outlook and fresh perspective, and you will slam this baby shut.

Just remember that GMAT is like an opponent, if you think it has the upper hand, it will beat you.

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by poiupoiu » Mon May 31, 2010 10:05 am
uwhusky wrote:By the way, I think you know the materials very well. Step away from the GMAT for few weeks and just forget about it. Come back with fresh outlook and fresh perspective, and you will slam this baby shut.

Just remember that GMAT is like an opponent, if you think it has the upper hand, it will beat you.
Thank you for your comments. There is a part of me that is worried that the actual GMAT will always be harder than whatever you study, therefore it's not just a matter of just knowing the materials, which I seem to do, but taking that next step and breaking down problems and applying the stuff you studied. If I can't make those recognitions, maybe I'm not cut out for this...

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by Stacey Koprince » Mon May 31, 2010 12:27 pm
I'm sorry you're having such a tough time with the test! When you PM'ed me, you didn't let me know your name, so I'm not sure which of my students you are. If you PM me again, let me know!
Most people perform better in the morning than in the afternoon, and even though I was a night person, I can tell you right now that my mind is still better during the morning.
Not me - no way, no how. I am seriously a night person. Starting the test at 8a instead of 12p would definitely cause my score to drop! :)

Okay, so what's going on here? poiupoiu, the real test is always going to be tougher in one respect: you know it counts. You know the practice tests don't count. And you can't change those two things. The best you can do is go into the real test with your confidence at a high level, really feeling like you're ready to nail this thing... but that didn't happen the last time around.

You know that now, though. At least you have an idea of what mistakes not to repeat the next time around.

I'd like to dive a bit deeper into the issue of why your score dropped, though, so that we know EVERYthing we need to know in order to figure out where to go from here. Read this article and do the analysis described:
https://www.beatthegmat.com/a/2009/10/26 ... went-wrong

Then come back here and post what you found out (and I'll probably have even more questions for you after you do that). It's good that you aren't planning to go to b-school right away; we can make sure we really figure out what's going on and come up with the best plan for dealing with things.

Also, because you did some private tutoring with us recently, you may be eligible for a free Post-Exam Assessment - a phone call with an instructor to figure out what went wrong and set up a game plan for your re-take. I think it depends upon how much tutoring you did (or possibly you'd qualify on the basis of taking the class in the past, if you didn't already do a PEA after taking the test the first time). Send an email to [email protected] to ask whether you're eligible and, if so, I *highly* recommend that you do this.
Please note: I do not use the Private Messaging system! I will not see any PMs that you send to me!!

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by poiupoiu » Tue Jun 01, 2010 12:09 am
Thanks Stacey.

1. Official Test Conditions

I did the essays, took my breaks, and finished my practice tests in one sittings. The breaks on the real test felt shorter because of the fingerprint, and I'll keep that in mind for the future.

2. Stamina

I never took my tests at 8AM. My greatest regret is signing for the test at 8AM. Not going to happen again. I took 2 tests within 3 days of my test. I had a normal breakfast and brought water during my breaks. I even stretched. However, I did not get a good night's sleep. I went to bed early, but I was tossing and turning.

3. Timing

I started off in the quant section way too fast. I slowed down a bit, but I still had too much time for the last 10 questions. On the practice tests, I generally go a little fast, but never with the amount of time I had with a 1/4 of the way left. Verbal timing was OK, but I still scored lower than any of my practice tests.

4. Anxiety

Everyone with my study plan seemed OK until the Thursday before my test. I definitely stressed too much and overreacted to my declining GMATprep scores.

This is how I would assess myself. I am still worried whether the real GMAT may be harder than the OG and GMATprep or I simply succumbed to terrible anxiety.

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by Stacey Koprince » Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:15 pm
It will always feel a bit harder because you know that it really counts - that added stress makes you concentrate on the "bad" things, such as the problems that are giving you trouble. It's the same thing as thinking that you're in the slow lane when you're in a hurry to get somewhere, but when you're not in a hurry, you don't think the universe is conspiring against you to make you even more late. :)

So, your quant dropped more (relative to your practice test scores) than your verbal, but both did drop.

1) You messed up the timing on quant; that's going to affect you somewhat. It can be just as much of a problem to go too quickly as it is to go too slowly. You make more careless mistakes when you're moving too quickly.

2) You're not a morning person. That would've affected your performance more on earlier sections of the test. Quant went down more than verbal. (Have you gotten your essay score yet? Curious whether that was affected.)

3) You took 2 practice tests within 3 days of the real test, with a double whammy: you tired yourself out AND you hurt your confidence by getting scores lower than you wanted / expected. There was no time to recover on either count - you couldn't magically improve your confidence, nor could you magically get all that energy back.

That combination of factors is enough to explain a 640 performance when you were hoping / expecting to get 700+.

So, the good news is: we have a pretty good handle on what happened and why it happened. That's important - if you don't know why it happened, there's not a lot you can do to prevent it from happening again.

So, now what?

1) Obviously, schedule the test later in the day next time. Take your practice tests at this same time of day. Do take into account minor issues as well, such as the fact that the true break length is only about 4-5 minutes once you factor in that sign-in / sign-out time.

2) Fix this quant timing problem. Timing problems are the biggest culprits in causing inconsistent scoring. The more you mess up the timing, the harder you can fall.

3) Think about what to do to boost your confidence next time. Don't let yourself get so stressed out that you talk yourself into doing something that you know is not a good idea (such as taking a practice test within 3 days of the real test). As you found out, it can actually be much worse to do that than to make yourself live with a bit of uncertainty. [Also, the next time you score a 710 on a practice test, don't you dare think that it's a bad score and lose your confidence!!! It's a great score!! :)]

On the quant timing problem, you need to start doing a few things. Keep an error log and understand WHY you make the mistakes that you make, particularly the ones related to timing / speed. Use this article to help: https://www.beatthegmat.com/mba/2010/04/ ... our-errors

When you do problems in less than 1.5m, even if you get them right, go through and ask yourself: if I were to make a mistake on this problem, where would that probably happen? Where am I going too fast, skipping steps, not writing down my work? What should I have done to be very systematic with this (in order to minimize my chances of making a careless mistake)? Then make yourself actually write out the work you should have done, in the way you should have written it out.

Make yourself be more systematic and that will slow you down AND help you to minimize careless mistakes both.

Okay, pep talk time. You haven't forgotten everything. You can still "crank out with ease" all those things that you used to be able to do. You did a LOT of things correctly - you just messed up a few things down the stretch and it cost you. You're going to have to pick yourself back up and do it again - but you can do it!

Go start doing what I talked about above tonight. Check back in here to let us know how things are going, to ask more questions, and to figure out what new things you need to do as you progress.
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by concept » Wed Jun 02, 2010 10:08 am
Stacey,
It is really commendable for you to put in such a huge effort. Admire you !!

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by Stacey Koprince » Fri Jun 04, 2010 10:31 am
thanks, concept :)
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by uwhusky » Fri Jun 04, 2010 12:19 pm
Stacey Koprince wrote:thanks, concept :)
You are truly amazing, I am seeing your posts EVERYWHERE and in different forums!