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his vs. him

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by Katrusya » Tue May 19, 2009 10:55 am
Everyone of us have understood that without him helping us we would not have suceeded in our program over the past six months.

A. Everyone of us have understood that without him helping us
B. Everyone of us has understood that without his helping us
C. Everyone of us have understood that without his help
D. Everyone of us has understood that without him helping us
E. Every single one of us have understood that without him helping us

I have reached the point where I hesitate to chose between B and D. I would rather choose D, but book says it's B.

:?: Does anybody know what the rule for picking his/him is?
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by myohmy » Tue May 19, 2009 11:06 am
In this case, helping is a gerund, which means the nouns/pronouns referring to it must be possessive. It's just one of those stupid grammar rules GMAC expects you to know. If you turn a verb into a noun ("help" into "helping") then that noun has to be possessed by something, so you need to use "his" rather than "him."
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by ManSab » Tue May 19, 2009 11:14 am
I agree with myohmy.

B.
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by Katrusya » Tue May 19, 2009 11:19 am
Thank you very much, I got your point! I thought it might be this, but also I have another view (wrong one though, but it is still in my head):

Why can't I refer "Helping" as an adj for HIM?
I may say: everyone of us has understood that without him we wouldn't....
And it's OK, right?
And then, I add an adjective to pronoun "HIM" and I am getting
...that without him helping us....

English isn't my first language, so both options sound good to me. I need to learnd what's wrong with second one? Could you explain that also.
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by abhinav85 » Tue May 19, 2009 11:40 am
Why C is wrong among the answer choices?
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by Katrusya » Tue May 19, 2009 11:53 am
C is wrong because "Everyone of us" requires HAS not HAVE
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by myohmy » Tue May 19, 2009 11:56 am
C is wrong since "everyone of us have" is incorrect - everyone is singular, so it should be "has".

I'm kind of irritated with this question because "everyone of us has" is also technically incorrect -- it should be "every one of us". Oh well.
Why can't I refer "Helping" as an adj for HIM?
I may say: everyone of us has understood that without him we wouldn't....
And it's OK, right?
And then, I add an adjective to pronoun "HIM" and I am getting
...that without him helping us....
You can't use helping as an adjective because unfortunately, it isn't one. Helpful would be, but helping could never really work as as an adjective. Helping is a gerund, so if you treat it like an adjective you'll be wrong.

Your first sentence is correct because in the case of "we couldn't have done it without him," him is acting as a noun.

In the case of "we couldn't have done it without him helping," helping is acting as the noun, so him can't do it as well. It has to be one or the other. We have to convert him to a possessive pronoun, to connect the two nouns.
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by Katrusya » Tue May 19, 2009 12:02 pm
:? Is a gerund always a noun?

I have heard the expression "helping hand" about person who helps everybody. So this expression isn't correct? It must be "helpful hand"? Because it's obvious in this expression that "helping" is an adj here.
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by myohmy » Tue May 19, 2009 12:09 pm
The problem with the GMAT is that often, we don't adhere to "technically" correct grammar rules constantly. Much of the words that we use and ways we phrase things in everyday conversation or casual writing is grammatically incorrect.

The GMAT, however, tests many of those grammar rules that you don't consider important because people really don't "speak" like that. A helping hand is the expression, but the expression is incorrect TECHNICALLY. That doesn't necessarily mean the expression is wrong - like I said, we don't adhere strictly to grammar rules when we speak. Such is the nature of language, it's constantly changing the rules :wink: .

Unfortunately, a lot of what the GMAT considers "right" answers sound "wrong" since we don't usually speak according to specific rules. There's not really a great way to explain it besides, that's the rule, people break it in everyday life, which is why D sounds correct, but the answer is B.
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by Katrusya » Tue May 19, 2009 12:14 pm
Thank you very much for your diligent answers :D
I should get rid of referring to "what I have heard before"
And my last question.

SO in most cases, when I see a gerund, it must be a noun?
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by myohmy » Tue May 19, 2009 12:20 pm
Usually, yes. And generally, a noun/pronoun immediately connected to a gerund should be possessive.

Remember that a gerund is different than a participle, though they look the same. In the case of a partciple, you don't need to use possessive pronouns:

For instance
I saw him jogging. <---Jogging is a participle here, so we don't need to use "his" rather than "him." "Him" is the direct object (what is being seen) and jogging is modifying "him".
I admired his jogging. <--- Jogging is a gerund here and is the direct object of the sentence. What did I admire? His jogging, not "him".


Good luck!
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by Katrusya » Tue May 19, 2009 1:00 pm
That's completely understandable. I got those rules.

But how do you distinguish one from another? :oops:

Can't I saw his jogging and admired him jogging?
I do understand the difference.
In first sentence JOGGING is an object and His modifying this object. In second sentence HIM is object and Jogging is modifying this object. But how to distinguish my example from yours?
:roll:
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by Katrusya » Tue May 19, 2009 1:10 pm
Let's put my question this way:
How to identify the object of the sentence (whether it's Jogging or Him) if this part is underlined? I think both would be correct.
I saw his Jogging or I saw HIM jogging.
Depends on what you want to emphasize.
Suggestions?
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by myohmy » Wed May 20, 2009 11:58 am
How to identify the object? That's a judgment call. Look to other contextual clues in the sentence, but there is no hard and fast rule - as you said, it depends on what the author intended to emphasize. In this case, it's clear that its his help that we need, not "him".

Hope that helps!
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by Katrusya » Wed May 20, 2009 12:01 pm
Thank you!
I'll be paying attention to those detailes.
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