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So dogged were Frances Perkins’--->SC confusion

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So dogged were Frances Perkins’--->SC confusion

by atulmangal » Sat Apr 09, 2011 3:20 pm
So dogged were Frances Perkins'investigations of the garment industry, and her lobbying for wage and hour reform was persistent, Alfred E. Smith and Franklin D. Roosevelt recruited Perkins to work within the government, rather than as a social worker.

A. and her lobbying for wage and hour reform was persistent,
B. and lobbying for wage and hour reform was persistent, so that
C. her lobbying for wage and hour reform persistent, that
D. lobbying for wage and hour reform was so persistent,
E. so persistent her lobbying for wage and hour reform, that

Please explain the reasoning for all the answer choices?

Consider this sentence:

That Dog barks. This is an Independent clause: who barks---> that dog

Now consider this sentence

Ravi is so intelligent, that Ram recruited him to work in his company.

In the above sentence, which one is the independent clause?? The main SC question confused me so asking this simple basic question? please clear
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by clock60 » Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:56 am
this sentence tests idiom:so.....that that is too convoluately twisted, but we must follow at least the stem of it.
a)so....-but no that
b)so.....so that -again wrong usage
d)so....so -no that
e)so...so that
left with C
c)so...that


That Dog barks. This is an Independent clause: who barks---> that dog
i think that dog barks, is not independet but rather relative clause that can`t stand alone
if you change that for this it will be independent
this dog barks. is right, and can stand alone.
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by HSPA » Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:31 am
so dogged were investigations that X recurited Y ( B/C/E)
so dogged were investigations that so x recruited y (C/E)

So persistant were [ investiagtionas || lobbying for Z]
---so persistant were her investigations and lobbying for Z (C)
First take: 640 (50M, 27V) - RC needs 300% improvement
Second take: coming soon..
Regards,
HSPA.
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by aspirant2011 » Sun Apr 10, 2011 7:51 am
Hi,

though I agree in the sentence Idiom "so x that y" is being tested but please clear my one doubt i.e I read somewhere "that" should never be preceded by a comma and if i proceed with the same rule than I don't find even a single answer choice to be correct......please correct me if i am wrong
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by clock60 » Sun Apr 10, 2011 8:16 am
hi aspirant
try to read the sentence another way
So dogged were Frances Perkins'investigations of the garment industry, her lobbying for wage and hour reform persistent, that
commas here stand not before that, but rather refer to the modifier-,her lobbying for wage and hour reform persistent, that is ,i think, absolute phrase but not sure
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by atulmangal » Sun Apr 10, 2011 8:17 am
Guys the OA is actually E...this question was discussed an year ago on Manhattan forum, but it didn't clear my doubt.

@Clock

If you look at my doubt in the first post and relate it with Op E so understand why i asked those questions...

See, if Op E is correct then see

We have only two clauses and one of them have to be an IC to make a complete sentence. Agreed??

clearly, "So dogged were Frances Perkins'investigations of the garment industry" is not an IC

thus, "THAT Alfred E. Smith and Franklin D. Roosevelt recruited Perkins to work within the government, rather than as a social worker." has to be an IC...agree???

Thats why i asked THAT dog barks is an IC or NOT

You said its not then how we apply this knowledge in this question, where the correct answer is Op E?????

Please clear
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by clock60 » Sun Apr 10, 2011 8:48 am
i think that i am wrong in my option for C, it comes to be E
it will be great that somebody explain what is grammer structure in E, and how to apply it properly
but as for you question to the
thus, "THAT Alfred E. Smith and Franklin D. Roosevelt recruited Perkins to work within the government, rather than as a social worker." has to be an IC...agree???
i try to understand what is IC, perhaps independent clause
but it is not indepedent clause, here you have subject that starts with pronoun that, but you have no working verb here, so this sentence is not even a clause but rather fragment
to me better version will look like
"THAT Alfred E. Smith and Franklin D. Roosevelt recruited Perkins to work within the government, rather than as a social worker is (was) a good news.here is (was) is working verb of the long subject that starts with that
the above version, will be independent clause
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by atulmangal » Sun Apr 10, 2011 9:03 am
@clock

IC----> Independent clause you are correct

But in IC, the necessary condition is The main subject must contain a working verb and that why

"THAT Alfred E. Smith and Franklin D. Roosevelt recruited Perkins to work within the government, rather than as a social worker."----> is NOT a fragment

the main subject is, i think, "Alfred E. Smith and Franklin D. Roosevelt" and for this the working verb is RECRUITED...rest "Perkins" is object..and rather than compare "work within the government"--> phrase to a phrase again...

what do u think..? correct me if m wrong
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by clock60 » Sun Apr 10, 2011 9:27 am
i agree: Alfred E.Smith anf Franklin D Roosevelt could be subject of the wotking verb recruited
but it can be valid only without relative pronoun that before Alfred

Alfred E. Smith and Franklin D. Roosevelt recruited Perkins to work within the government, rather than as a social worker." is a legitimate sentence
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by Jim@Grockit » Mon Apr 11, 2011 6:49 am
Independent clause: That dog barks. As in That dog barks, and it keeps me up all night.
Not an independent clause: Dog that barks. As in I don't want my neighbor to buy a dog that barks.
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by atulmangal » Mon Apr 11, 2011 7:21 am
Jim@Grockit wrote:Independent clause: That dog barks. As in That dog barks, and it keeps me up all night.
Not an independent clause: Dog that barks. As in I don't want my neighbor to buy a dog that barks.
Thanks for your post Jim,

Can you please explain the approach to solve this question. As you can see, almost all of us picked the wrong answer, your explanation will become really helpful.

Thanks
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by ankurmit » Tue Apr 12, 2011 2:45 am
confused between C and E

A tough one !!

Not able to understand sentence structure
--------
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by David@VeritasPrep » Wed Apr 13, 2011 9:52 am
Received a PM on this,

Just wanted to mention that this was on the GMATPrep at some point so it is an official question!

Here is an approach for attacking this one:

First, understand that we need a "that" to indicate the that her "doggedness" caused Smith and Roosevelt to recruit her.

An example, "His arms were so powerful THAT he easily lifted the weight." No understand that we can reverse this position of the "so" and say..."SO powerful were his arms that he easily lifted the weight."

We can eliminate choices A and D because they lack the necessary that.

Next we can look for parallelism.

You see that the form of the non -underlined portion is "So dogged were ..." Choice B is in the wrong form "...was persistent..." This also lacks the word "so."

Choice C is also not parallel. It also has the "persistent" at the end of the phrase and it lacks the "so" as well.

Choice E is parallel..."So dogged were [her] investigations, so persistent her lobbying...that"

It is interesting that the middle portion, the part set off by commas is underlined. If that portion were not there it is only the "that" which is missing. "So dogged were Frances Perkins' investigations of the garment industry that Alfred E. Smith and Franklin D. Roosevelt recruited Perkins to work within the government, rather than as a social worker." This is a correct sentence.

Aside from providing the required "that" The underlined portion needs to do no harm to the sentence. This means that it needs to be parallel.

Another example of an answer choice that is not perfect but it the best of the five by far.
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by atulmangal » Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:09 am
@David

Thanks a ton for replying this tough SC

I still have some doubt please clear...my point is if m correct

"So dogged were Frances Perkins'investigations of the garment industry"---is a clause

and "so persistent her lobbying for wage and hour reform" ----is a phrase, a modifier

Do we really need to care or maintain the PARALLELISM b/w a CLAUSE AND A PHRASE????? As you suggested that Op B and Op C lacks the word SO and this word is required to maintain parallelism.

Secondly, "so persistent her lobbying for wage and hour reform"---what kind of phrase is this?? is this an Absolute Phrase???

Please clear
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by clock60 » Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:36 am
Hi David
thank you for reply
but i have one more question
according to your solution in E
"So dogged were investigations, so persistent her lobbying...that"
if i got yours right
so dogged..... is parallel to so persistent....
but sometimes parallel parts in the sentence are connected with not only a comma but also a conjunction (and, or, but..)
does second so, is conjunction, or it is case in which we can omit conjunction at all
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