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The problem surrounding when in Verb,Tense,Mood

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The problem surrounding when in Verb,Tense,Mood

by dddanny2006 » Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:46 am
Hey there

I have a problem in understanding the concept here.

She PLAYED with her friends when the babysitter ARRIVED

What does this sentence actually mean?

What happened earlier?Did she start playing before the baby sitter arrived,or did she start once the baby sitter arrived?

Also I need help with this question,its from the Manhattan SC guide

She already woke up when the phone rang

The underlined section needs correction.My ear feels like-- She had already woken up when the phone rang.

Thats right,but can anybody please explain to me the construction about the when

Thanks
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by Bill@VeritasPrep » Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:05 am
dddanny2006 wrote:Hey there

I have a problem in understanding the concept here.

She PLAYED with her friends when the babysitter ARRIVED

What does this sentence actually mean?

What happened earlier?Did she start playing before the baby sitter arrived,or did she start once the baby sitter arrived?
Having them in the same tense makes it hard to understand.

If she was playing first and was still playing when the babysitter got there: "she was playing with her friends when the babysitter arrived."

if she finished playing beforehand: "she played with her friends before the babysitter arrived."

If she started playing when the babysitter arrived: "she started playing with her friends when the babysitter arrived."

In this case, I think you need a combination of tenses and signal words (like before or when) to make the sequence clear.
Also I need help with this question,its from the Manhattan SC guide

She already woke up when the phone rang

The underlined section needs correction.My ear feels like-- She had already woken up when the phone rang.

Thats right,but can anybody please explain to me the construction about the when

Thanks
"When" points you to a specific time, and you choose the tense for the other verb based on how it relates to the verb in the "when" phrase. The phone rang (simple past). At that point, you were already awake. Thus, you need to make waking up past perfect to reflect that it was the earlier event.
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by dddanny2006 » Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:37 am
Oh okay Bill.So the word 'already' was the indicator of what happened earlier.Am I right?

According to Manhattan-

She PLAYED with her friends when the baby sitter arrived.

According to MGMAT,they say that the action played took place after the babysitter arrived.

How do we comprehend this logic?
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by Bill@VeritasPrep » Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:58 am
Yep, already is a signal word like before, after, during, while, until, etc.

I'm not a big fan of that example. I mean, their explanation makes sense, but I think the order of events is still too ambiguous without more context. Even changing it to "she played with her friends AFTER the babysitter arrived" is much better in terms of clarity. In that case, after clearly tells us the order of events, so we don't need to use different tenses to reflect that.
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by dddanny2006 » Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:09 pm
Thanks for that Bill.In you earlier message you included Past Progressive,I dont understand when they're used and what do they do,I mean we know that present progressive tells us that its happening right now,or at the moment.But what about Past Progressive,how do they work especially when we have the word WHEN.

She was playing with her friends when the baby sitter arrived.

What does this convey?We know that she did play,but whats the sequence in this one?What tells us the sequence?Any clues?

Does Past Progressive give any time frame to the sentence?Please tell me the roles of a past progressive term

What's the difference between simple past and past progressive in terms of meaning,and message convey-ability?

Thanks Bill

Bill@VeritasPrep wrote:Yep, already is a signal word like before, after, during, while, until, etc.

I'm not a big fan of that example. I mean, their explanation makes sense, but I think the order of events is still too ambiguous without more context. Even changing it to "she played with her friends AFTER the babysitter arrived" is much better in terms of clarity. In that case, after clearly tells us the order of events, so we don't need to use different tenses to reflect that.
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by Bill@VeritasPrep » Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:53 pm
https://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/ ... essive.htm

It is used to express an action that was ongoing when another past event occurs. From the link:

I was sleeping on the couch when Bertie smashed through the door.
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