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United states air force officials a cannon

by mundasingh123 » Sat Aug 28, 2010 1:58 pm
According to United States Air Force officials, a cannon shooting dead chickens at airplanes has proved helpful to demonstrate what kind of damage can result when jets fly into a flock of large birds.
(A) shooting dead chickens at airplanes has proved helpful to demonstrate
(B) shooting dead chickens at airplanes has proved itself helpful as a demonstration of
(C) shooting dead chickens at airplanes proves itself helpful as demonstrating
(D) that shoots dead chickens at airplanes proves itself helpful to demonstrate
(E) that shoots dead chickens at airplanes has proved helpful in demonstrating
The OA is E

I chose A.
Helpful to + verb is also correct.
What is the difference between A and E?
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by outreach » Tue Aug 31, 2010 11:02 am
to demonstrate seems like action in future which is incorrect. So verb+ing is better
mundasingh123 wrote:According to United States Air Force officials, a cannon shooting dead chickens at airplanes has proved helpful to demonstrate what kind of damage can result when jets fly into a flock of large birds.
(A) shooting dead chickens at airplanes has proved helpful to demonstrate
(B) shooting dead chickens at airplanes has proved itself helpful as a demonstration of
(C) shooting dead chickens at airplanes proves itself helpful as demonstrating
(D) that shoots dead chickens at airplanes proves itself helpful to demonstrate
(E) that shoots dead chickens at airplanes has proved helpful in demonstrating
The OA is E

I chose A.
Helpful to + verb is also correct.
What is the difference between A and E?
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by uwhusky » Tue Aug 31, 2010 11:05 am
Actually you can eliminate A in the initial 2/3 split.

a cannon "shooting..." compare to a cannon "that shoots", verbal "shooting" is illogical.
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by mundasingh123 » Tue Aug 31, 2010 11:23 am
uwhusky wrote:Actually you can eliminate A in the initial 2/3 split.

a cannon "shooting..." compare to a cannon "that shoots", verbal "shooting" is illogical.
Are we talking about "VERBALS"
Whats a verbal?
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by uwhusky » Tue Aug 31, 2010 11:34 am
https://www.beatthegmat.com/mba/2010/06/ ... -and-verbs
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by mundasingh123 » Tue Aug 31, 2010 11:51 am
Hey ,the example given by Knewton lacks a verb.
Here in this sentence there is a working verb "has proved" ."shooting" is a modifier that modifies the noun before it
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by uwhusky » Tue Aug 31, 2010 12:00 pm
"shooting..." is a participle phrase derived from "is shooting...", thus within this context, it doesn't make any sense at all. The main point of the sentence is "a cannon that has proved helpful to demonstrate what kind of damage can result when jets fly into a flock of large birds." The correct modifier should be one that describes the general states of the cannon.
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by niksworth » Tue Aug 31, 2010 12:18 pm
mundasingh123 wrote:
uwhusky wrote:Actually you can eliminate A in the initial 2/3 split.

a cannon "shooting..." compare to a cannon "that shoots", verbal "shooting" is illogical.
Are we talking about "VERBALS"
Whats a verbal?
A verbal, also called non finite verb, is a verb form which can simultaneously act as another part of speech.

There are primarily 3 kinds of verbals-
1) Participles - Which act as adjectives e.g. Barking dogs seldom bite.
2) Gerunds - Which function as nouns e.g. Swimming is my favorite activity.
3) Infinitives - Can act as a noun, adjective or an adverb.
E.g. - As a noun - To succeed takes courage.
- As an adjective - I don't have time to waste
- As an adverb - Do not stop to chat

Coming to this question, the word shooting in a cannon shooting dead chickens, is a verbal. It is a participle which modifies cannon.

However, it is important to note that the participle has been used in the form of a reduced relative clause (i.e. a relative clause not marked by the use of an overt complementizer such as that).

If we modify the statement by including the relative pronoun, we immediately see the problem inherent in using the participle form here. - a cannon that are/were shooting dead chickens at airplanes has proved helpful. This shows that the use of participle form is not valid. This error is corrected in option E.
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by mundasingh123 » Tue Aug 31, 2010 1:01 pm
niksworth wrote:
mundasingh123 wrote:
uwhusky wrote:Actually you can eliminate A in the initial 2/3 split.

If we modify the statement by including the relative pronoun, we immediately see the problem inherent in using the participle form here. - a cannon that are/were shooting dead chickens at airplanes has proved helpful. This shows that the use of participle form is not valid. This error is corrected in option E.
Hey i am not getting u
why doesnt "a cannon that is shooting dead chickens has proved helpful" make sense?
is it because of the change in meaning?
Is this some kind of a test to check whether the use of a participle here is appropriate or not.

Are we supposed to replace -ing participle ,whenever we find it , with "that was/is -ing"
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by niksworth » Tue Aug 31, 2010 1:20 pm
mundasingh123 wrote:
niksworth wrote:
mundasingh123 wrote:
uwhusky wrote:Actually you can eliminate A in the initial 2/3 split.

If we modify the statement by including the relative pronoun, we immediately see the problem inherent in using the participle form here. - a cannon that are/were shooting dead chickens at airplanes has proved helpful. This shows that the use of participle form is not valid. This error is corrected in option E.
Hey i am not getting u
why doesnt "a cannon that is shooting dead chickens has proved helpful" make sense?
is it because of the change in meaning?
Is this some kind of a test to check whether the use of a participle here is appropriate or not.

Are we supposed to replace -ing participle ,whenever we find it , with "that was/is -ing"
Not always, but sometimes yes.
Check this link out for more details on reduced relative clauses and when can the relative pronoun be dropped:
https://www.eslgold.com/grammar/reduced_ ... auses.html
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by mundasingh123 » Wed Sep 01, 2010 12:16 am
niksworth wrote:
mundasingh123 wrote:
niksworth wrote:
mundasingh123 wrote:
uwhusky wrote:Actually you can eliminate A in the initial 2/3 split.

If we modify the statement by including the relative pronoun, we immediately see the problem inherent in using the participle form here. - a cannon that are/were shooting dead chickens at airplanes has proved helpful. This shows that the use of participle form is not valid. This error is corrected in option E.
Hey i am not getting u
why doesnt "a cannon that is shooting dead chickens has proved helpful" make sense?
is it because of the change in meaning?
Is this some kind of a test to check whether the use of a participle here is appropriate or not.

Are we supposed to replace -ing participle ,whenever we find it , with "that was/is -ing"
Not always, but sometimes yes.
Check this link out for more details on reduced relative clauses and when can the relative pronoun be dropped:
https://www.eslgold.com/grammar/reduced_ ... auses.html
Hey i found the following at the particular url.
The relative pronoun can be deleted if there is a new subject and verb following it:

A. This is the house that Jack built.
B. This is the house Jack built.
A. The person whom you see is my father.
B. The person you see is my father.

A. This is the place where I live.
B. This is the place I live.

A. I don't know the reason why she is late.
B. I don't know the reason she is late

(Also : I don't know why she is late. )

A. The woman whom he likes is married.
B. The woman he likes is married.

Do you think the statements in the bold are correct?
Also inviting the rest of the junta for their comments
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by paes » Wed Sep 01, 2010 2:25 am
MundaSingh@

Following sentences are right :

A. This is the place where I live.
B. This is the place I live.

A. I don't know the reason why she is late.
B. I don't know the reason she is late

According to MgMat :

You can drop the relative pronoun if it is referring to a noun, which is an object of the sentence.
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by GMATGuruNY » Wed Sep 01, 2010 2:51 am
mundasingh123 wrote:According to United States Air Force officials, a cannon shooting dead chickens at airplanes has proved helpful to demonstrate what kind of damage can result when jets fly into a flock of large birds.
(A) shooting dead chickens at airplanes has proved helpful to demonstrate
(B) shooting dead chickens at airplanes has proved itself helpful as a demonstration of
(C) shooting dead chickens at airplanes proves itself helpful as demonstrating
(D) that shoots dead chickens at airplanes proves itself helpful to demonstrate
(E) that shoots dead chickens at airplanes has proved helpful in demonstrating
The OA is E

I chose A.
Helpful to + verb is also correct.
What is the difference between A and E?
In the SC above, the correct idiom is helpful in demonstrating. Eliminate A, B, C, and D.

The correct answer is E.

The construction helpful in + gerund is appropriate when the action of the gerund is the area in which help is wanted. In the SC above, demonstrating what kind of damage is the area in which the cannon can prove helpful.

The construction helpful + infinitive is appropriate when the action of the infinitive is helpful in performing another action or achieving another goal:

When raising children, it can be helpful to demonstrate good manners.

In the sentence above, the action to demonstrate good manners is helpful in performing another action (raising children).
Last edited by GMATGuruNY on Wed Sep 01, 2010 2:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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by paes » Wed Sep 01, 2010 2:56 am
Thanks Guru for your prompt and clean response.

Here more of the guys are confuse whether the use of present participle in A is correct.

E is using 'that' while A is using 'present participle'.
both the usage are correct here or only usage of 'that' (E) is correct,

Please put some light on it.
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by GMATGuruNY » Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:08 am
paes wrote:Thanks Guru for your prompt and clean response.

Here more of the guys are confuse whether the use of present participle in A is correct.

E is using 'that' while A is using 'present participle'.
both the usage are correct here or only usage of 'that' (E) is correct,

Please put some light on it.
In the SC above, a cannon that shoots is better than a cannon shooting. The -ing in shooting suggests continuous action, implying that the cannon is continuously shooting at chickens. Do we really think that the cannon is shooting at chickens 24 hours a day? The result would be a lot of dead chickens.
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