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simple present or simple past for collective noun

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by vchivuku » Sun Aug 22, 2010 10:04 am
MGMAT Pg 45 #14, in the section "Subject-Verb Agreement":

Question: Tired of practicing, the orchestra decide to walk out on their astonished conductor.
Answer given: Tired of practicing, the orchestra decides to walk out on its astonished conductor.

My answer: Tired of practicing, the orchestra decided to walk out on its astonished conductor.

Why should it not be construed as simple past as opposed to present?
If both their answer and mine were given as choices, which one to pick ?
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by Gurpinder » Sun Aug 22, 2010 5:52 pm
vchivuku wrote:MGMAT Pg 45 #14, in the section "Subject-Verb Agreement":

Question: Tired of practicing, the orchestra decide to walk out on their astonished conductor.
Answer given: Tired of practicing, the orchestra decides to walk out on its astonished conductor.

My answer: Tired of practicing, the orchestra decided to walk out on its astonished conductor.

Why should it not be construed as simple past as opposed to present?
If both their answer and mine were given as choices, which one to pick ?
The keyword in this sentence is the word "practicing" - which is an infinitive. Look at the -ing.

Therefore, you CANNOT use simple past. That's why you must use present.

I hope that helps!
"Do not confuse motion and progress. A rocking horse keeps moving but does not make any progress."
- Alfred A. Montapert, Philosopher.
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by uwhusky » Sun Aug 22, 2010 8:07 pm
Gurpinder wrote:
The keyword in this sentence is the word "practicing" - which is an infinitive. Look at the -ing.

Therefore, you CANNOT use simple past. That's why you must use present.

I hope that helps!
Gurpinder, I strongly recommend you to research more on types of verbs. Verbs that end in -ING are either progressive or gerunds, and definitely not infinitives.

As for this question, I believe that "tired of practicing" is an adverb of reason that is modifying "decide".

"Because the orchestra is tired of practicing, it decides to walk out on its astonished conductor."
Yep.
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by Gurpinder » Sun Aug 22, 2010 8:22 pm
uwhusky wrote:
Gurpinder wrote:
The keyword in this sentence is the word "practicing" - which is an infinitive. Look at the -ing.

Therefore, you CANNOT use simple past. That's why you must use present.

I hope that helps!
Gurpinder, I strongly recommend you to research more on types of verbs. Verbs that end in -ING are either progressive or gerunds, and definitely not infinitives.

As for this question, I believe that "tired of practicing" is an adverb of reason that is modifying "decide".

"Because the orchestra is tired of practicing, it decides to walk out on its astonished conductor."
i thought progressive is infinite... Thats what someone here told me. Practicing in this sentence means that the action is still being executed. So its infinite?? Please correct me husky!

Thanks
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by uwhusky » Sun Aug 22, 2010 8:58 pm
When it comes to tense, there are two types: finite and nonfinite (or infinitive). Finite means verbs that show tense, such as practiced, is progressing, and practices. Nonfinite, or infinitive, means verbs that do not show tense such as practice.
Yep.
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by paes » Mon Aug 23, 2010 1:36 am
vchivuku wrote:MGMAT Pg 45 #14, in the section "Subject-Verb Agreement":

Question: Tired of practicing, the orchestra decide to walk out on their astonished conductor.
Answer given: Tired of practicing, the orchestra decides to walk out on its astonished conductor.

My answer: Tired of practicing, the orchestra decided to walk out on its astonished conductor.

Why should it not be construed as simple past as opposed to present?
If both their answer and mine were given as choices, which one to pick ?

Tired of practicing, the orchestra decided to walk out on its astonished conductor.
Tired of practicing, the orchestra decides to walk out on its astonished conductor.

both the choices are correct.
You will not get such a problem in actual OG problem.
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by e-GMAT » Mon Aug 23, 2010 6:11 am
paes wrote: Tired of practicing, the orchestra decided to walk out on its astonished conductor.
Tired of practicing, the orchestra decides to walk out on its astonished conductor.

both the choices are correct.
You will not get such a problem in actual OG problem.
Paes is absolutely correct. Both sentences are correct and convey different meanings.

First one sets the sentence in past context, indicating that sometime in the past the orchestra decided to walk out because it was tired.
Second one sets the sentence in present context. Picture the orchestra practicing right now. It gets tired and decides to walk out.

In GMAT, you will be given such choices only if the remaining sentence (the non-underlined portion) indicates what the intended meaning should be. For example:

"Yesterday when I went to the auditorium to monitor the rehearsals, the orchestra, tired of practicing, decided to walk out on its astonished conductors."

Now in the above sentence, "decides" is incorrect, "decided" is correct because the non-underlined portion of the sentence sets the context of the sentence.

I hope this helps.

Regards,

Payal
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