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Because vs in that

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Because vs in that

by jihoonshim » Mon Jun 02, 2008 6:58 am
Dear all..

I'm struggling for preparing for the GMAT and especially SC.

I'm non-native.

I have inqury about 'in that vs because'.

I can't figure out the differences between them.

Someone said 'in that is prevailing' and "E" is correct with the problem as below.

Teratomas are unusual forms of cancer because they are composed of tissues such as tooth and bone not normally found in the organ in which the tumor appears.

a) because they are composed of tissues such as tooth and bone
b) because they are composed of tissues like tooth and bone that are
c) because they are composed of tissues, like tooth and bone, tissues
d) in that their composition , tissues such as tooth and bone, is
e) in that they are composed of tissues such as tooth and bone

but I think A seems to be correct.

Plz Help!!!
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by chidcguy » Mon Jun 02, 2008 7:37 am
When its between because and in that, in that usually wins.

That said the difference I know is, because needs a cause and effect.

in that is used in cases of explaining a reason/character.

Is T an unusual form of C because it is XYZ? XYZ is NOT causing T to be an unusual form of C. Its just a characteristic of T that makes it unusual

Do I make sense?
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by s_raizada » Mon Jun 02, 2008 11:56 am
I am not sure if IN that always win aginst because

According to OG 11, Q 51 explanation
'In that is a conjunction
that means inasmuch as; because in thathzs largely gone
out of use, it is considered stilted and overly formal. It also
uses two words when one would do'

It means GMAT guys do not like In that. If you guys are following sahil's notes or some other note, then complement those notes with your observations as well
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by netigen » Mon Jun 02, 2008 1:59 pm
s_raizada wrote:I am not sure if IN that always win aginst because

According to OG 11, Q 51 explanation
'In that is a conjunction
that means inasmuch as; because in thathzs largely gone
out of use, it is considered stilted and overly formal. It also
uses two words when one would do'

It means GMAT guys do not like In that. If you guys are following sahil's notes or some other note, then complement those notes with your observations as well
You seem to have soft copy of OG11 and OG10. Any ideas where we can get one?
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by goelmohit2002 » Fri Jul 24, 2009 6:53 am
s_raizada wrote:I am not sure if IN that always win aginst because

According to OG 11, Q 51 explanation
'In that is a conjunction
that means inasmuch as; because in thathzs largely gone
out of use, it is considered stilted and overly formal. It also
uses two words when one would do'

It means GMAT guys do not like In that. If you guys are following sahil's notes or some other note, then complement those notes with your observations as well
Can someone please tell what is correct ?

in that is preferred in GMAT or because is preferred in GMAT ?
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by lunarpower » Sun Jul 26, 2009 1:59 am
there is a clear and significant difference between "because" and "in that".

here's the difference:
X because Y means that there is an actual CAUSE-EFFECT RELATIONSHIP, in which Y is/was the actual CAUSE of X.
X in that Y is a LIMITING STATEMENT. in these statements, x is usually something very general, but then the sentence LIMITS that statement to the scope of whatever Y is.

here are a couple of examples.

joe is a typical teenager in that he likes to watch a great deal of television.
--> MEANING: joe shares one thing with typical teenagers: namely, he likes to watch a lot of tv.

joe is a typical teenager because he likes to watch a great deal of television.
--> MEANING: joe's tv shows have actually CAUSED him to BECOME LIKE other teenagers.

as you can see, these are two completely different things.

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by lunarpower » Sun Jul 26, 2009 2:03 am
in any case, it's clear that "in that" is correct in this particular problem.

we are NOT saying that the composition of these cancers MAKES them "unusual" (in some unspecified way), so "because" doesn't make any sense.

on the other hand, we ARE saying that the cancers are unusual in at least one way: namely, they are made of tooth, bone, etc. this is exactly what is conveyed by "in that".

--

there is NO general preference between "because" and "in that". you may see problems in which either is correct; there's no way to get around learning the difference between the two.
fortunately, it's a substantial difference (see above post); it's not some little subtle thing.

here's a problem (from another forum) on which "because" is correct
https://www.manhattangmat.com/forums/post1876.html

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the reason this is hard is that native speakers NEVER say "in that" out loud; the word that falls off their tongues will always be "because" (in much the same way that essentially all native speakers will say "like" when "such as" is meant).
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by goelmohit2002 » Sun Jul 26, 2009 5:01 am
lunarpower wrote:there is a clear and significant difference between "because" and "in that".

here's the difference:
X because Y means that there is an actual CAUSE-EFFECT RELATIONSHIP, in which Y is/was the actual CAUSE of X.
X in that Y is a LIMITING STATEMENT. in these statements, x is usually something very general, but then the sentence LIMITS that statement to the scope of whatever Y is.

here are a couple of examples.

joe is a typical teenager in that he likes to watch a great deal of television.
--> MEANING: joe shares one thing with typical teenagers: namely, he likes to watch a lot of tv.

joe is a typical teenager because he likes to watch a great deal of television.
--> MEANING: joe's tv shows have actually CAUSED him to BECOME LIKE other teenagers.

as you can see, these are two completely different things.

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Thanks Ron.

Can you please look at the following question of OG-11, Q51...here OG seems to be saying that that using "in that" is not correct in GMAT...

The Olympic Games helped to keep peace among the pugnacious states of the Greek world in that a sacred truce was proclaimed during the festival’s month.
(A) world in that a sacred truce was proclaimed during the festival’s month
(B) world, proclaiming a sacred truce during the festival’s month
(C) world when they proclaimed a sacred truce for the festival month
(D) world, for a sacred truce was proclaimed during the month of the festival
(E) world by proclamation of a sacred truce that was for the month of the festival

=========================================
The reason OG gives to kick out A is that

This sentence depends on using the correct conjunction to join two independent clauses. In that is a conjunction that means inasmuch as; because in that has largely gone out of use, it is considered stilted and overly formal. It also uses two words when one would do. In this sentence, the second clause explains the first one, so the conjunction for, meaning because, is the most appropriate choice for joining the two independent clauses of the compound sentence.
===========================================

Please tell if I am misinterpreting you....or the OG....
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by lunarpower » Sun Jul 26, 2009 3:13 pm
goelmohit2002 wrote:Can you please look at the following question of OG-11, Q51...
hmm.

that's interesting, because here's a gmatprep (official) question on which "in that" is part of the correct answer:
https://www.manhattangmat.com/forums/unl ... t4296.html

--

there are a couple of questions on which the people who write the answer key are simply out to lunch. (notice that this does NOT apply to the questions themselves, which are always very carefully edited.)

this is definitely one of those cases. "in that" is an EXTREMELY common conjunction, and is by no means "stilted and overly formal", nor has it "largely gone out of use".
also, there really isn't any other conjunction that performs the function of LIMITING the meaning of something, in the way that "in that" does. there just isn't a viable alternative.

for instance, if i gave you the following sentence, from above:
"joe is a typical teenager _____ he likes to watch lots of tv"
then there's really no way to fill in that blank with anything other than "in that".
you could use even longer constructions, such as "in the sense that", but no shorter construction really works.
in particular, you can't use "for", since that implies a cause-and-effect relationship.

in fact, the use of "for" as a conjunction, as in #51, is almost exactly identical to the use of "because".
(EXTRA NOTE THAT ISN'T REALLY RELEVANT TO THE GMAT: there are subtle differences - for instance, because is normally used when the cause itself is to be emphasized, while for is normally used when the main emphasis is not on the cause but on the effect.)

--

in any case, yeah, the answer key to that question is just strange, esp. in light of the other official problem about warblers (linked above). i'll forward this thread to other luminaries.
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by goelmohit2002 » Sun Jul 26, 2009 8:34 pm
Thanks Ron.

If using "in that" is correct....then can you please tell how to reach the answer D in the above OG-11, Q51....

OG had used "in that" to kick out A :-)
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by lunarpower » Mon Jul 27, 2009 12:02 am
goelmohit2002 wrote:Thanks Ron.

If using "in that" is correct....then can you please tell how to reach the answer D in the above OG-11, Q51....

OG had used "in that" to kick out A :-)
well, "in that" doesn't really make sense in that problem. the relationship in that problem is cause-effect, not limiting, so "because" (or "for", as in the correct answer) is more appropriate.

short answer: whether in that is "stilted" or "overly formal" is really irrelevant; the point is that it doesn't make sense in this sentence anyway.
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by goelmohit2002 » Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:21 am
lunarpower wrote: here are a couple of examples.

joe is a typical teenager in that he likes to watch a great deal of television.
--> MEANING: joe shares one thing with typical teenagers: namely, he likes to watch a lot of tv.

joe is a typical teenager because he likes to watch a great deal of television.
--> MEANING: joe's tv shows have actually CAUSED him to BECOME LIKE other teenagers.

as you can see, these are two completely different things.

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Hi Ron,

Thanks for the awesome reply. I suppose that you have given the second example above as of WRONG usage....meaning that we cannot use "because" here....please correct me if I am misinterpreting you....

Thanks
Mohit
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by lunarpower » Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:54 pm
goelmohit2002 wrote:Thanks for the awesome reply. I suppose that you have given the second example above as of WRONG usage....
well, basically, i'm just trying to illustrate the difference between the two meanings.

i purposely chose an example in which one of the two examples is sensible and the other absurd, just to emphasize the difference. (there are certainly examples in which both connectors make sense - in different ways - but that would probably be more confusing as an illustrative example.)

but yes, the second of these is definitely meant to be absurd.
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by goelmohit2002 » Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:07 am
Thanks a lot Ron !!!
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