comparision question --- need expert's reply

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atulmangal: Legendary Member; Posts: 1112; Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 11:16 amFollowed by: 49 members; Thanked: 77 times

by atulmangal » Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:59 am

According to a 1996 survey by the National Association of College and University Business Officers, more than three times as many independent institutions of higher education charge tuition and fees of under $8,000 a year than those that charge over $16,000.
A. than those that charge
B. than are charging
C. than to charge
D. as charge
E. as those charging

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Source: Beat The GMAT — Sentence Correction | Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:59 am

clock60: Legendary Member; Posts: 759; Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 10:15 amFollowed by: 3 members; Thanked: 85 times

by clock60 » Sun Mar 27, 2011 12:09 pm

looks like E

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GMATMadeEasy: Legendary Member; Posts: 768; Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:46 amFollowed by: 7 members; Thanked: 21 times

by GMATMadeEasy » Sun Mar 27, 2011 2:15 pm

@atulmangal : I am sure you will agree with me that A, B, and C are out because 'as' has to be followed by 'as' not than.

I did google this question before posting here .

OA is given as A in one post;however, A can NOT be the answer because usage of second 'than' has to be preceded by an comparative operator.

D v/S E : E has got most of the votes from people because it uses correct idiom . Neverthless , some posts have rejected this choice on the ground of parallelism. Should 'those' be really modified using 'that charge' instead of 'charging ' even if both play roles of adjective? But be aware that first charge is in role of proper verb but second charge is a present participle.

D : maintains parallelism by using 'charge';however, is there ellipsis there ? that means D should be read as follows: "as those that charge " ?

At this point, I would ask experts really to comment. Otherwise, all ACs are wrong.

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AIM GMAT: Legendary Member; Posts: 857; Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 1:36 amFollowed by: 15 members; Thanked: 56 times

by AIM GMAT » Sun Mar 27, 2011 9:46 pm

i vote for D . We will definately need expert opinion to clear off the confusion.

Thanks & Regards,
AIM GMAT

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HSPA: Legendary Member; Posts: 1101; Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 7:26 amFollowed by: 13 members; Thanked: 47 times; GMAT Score:640

by HSPA » Sun Mar 27, 2011 9:51 pm

we need as many 'as' ... D/E

charge shall be parallel... I am doubting charging

+1 for D

but who are charging 16K?? tough one

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atulmangal: Legendary Member; Posts: 1112; Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 11:16 amFollowed by: 49 members; Thanked: 77 times

by atulmangal » Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:06 pm

GMATMadeEasy wrote:@atulmangal : I am sure you will agree with me that A, B, and C are out because 'as' has to be followed by 'as' not than.

I did google this question before posting here .

OA is given as A in one post;however, A can NOT be the answer because usage of second 'than' has to be preceded by an comparative operator.

D v/S E : E has got most of the votes from people because it uses correct idiom . Neverthless , some posts have rejected this choice on the ground of parallelism. Should 'those' be really modified using 'that charge' instead of 'charging ' even if both play roles of adjective? But be aware that first charge is in role of proper verb but second charge is a present participle.

D : maintains parallelism by using 'charge';however, is there ellipsis there ? that means D should be read as follows: "as those that charge " ?

At this point, I would ask experts really to comment. Otherwise, all ACs are wrong.

Hi, The OA is Op D

@gmatmadeeasy

Your analysis is good but still in the end u agreed that and expert advice is needed for Op's D and E.....thats why i posted this question....I hope some expert will shed some light soon...

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ankurmit: Legendary Member; Posts: 516; Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:42 amFollowed by: 1 member; Location: Mumbai; Thanked: 14 times; GMAT Score:710

by ankurmit » Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:33 pm

IMO E.

--------
Ankur mittal

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force5: Legendary Member; Posts: 582; Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2011 12:48 amFollowed by: 6 members; Thanked: 61 times; GMAT Score:740

by force5 » Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:54 am

again.... i am not sure regarding the authenticity of this question. Its important to pick questions from the reliable source. I agree to GMATMadeEasy. However i started a few posts earlier on the same topic and waited for someone to clarify COMPARISONS. Its indeed a tricky type. One thing that i don't completely agree with GMATMadeEasy is - ellipsis. There is a strict limitation to what can be assumed.
i also feel that "Charging" (present continuous) is not absolutely incorrect here. if you understand what comparison the author is trying to strike then you will realize that we can also use that tense.

According to a 1996 survey by the National Association of College and University Business Officers, more than three times as many independent institutions of higher education charge tuition and fees of under $8,000 a year than those that charge over $16,000

now here we are comparing the tuition fees between institutions. hence i am still using similar form of tense here ( charge and charging- both are present tense). which is creating a doubt .....

I don't think any of the 2 choices are good enough. However i would really appreciate if an expert can explain Comparison and ellipsis.

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GMATGuruNY: GMAT Instructor; Posts: 15539; Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 12:04 pmFollowed by: 1906 members; Location: New York, NY; Thanked: 13060 times; GMAT Score:790

by GMATGuruNY » Mon Mar 28, 2011 3:20 am

atulmangal wrote:According to a 1996 survey by the National Association of College and University Business Officers, more than three times as many independent institutions of higher education charge tuition and fees of under $8,000 a year than those that charge over $16,000.
A. than those that charge
B. than are charging
C. than to charge
D. as charge
E. as those charging

In A, B and C, than is incorrect. The correct idiom is as many X as Y. Eliminate A, B and C.

In E, more than three times as many charge ....as those charging is not a parallel comparison. Eliminate E.

The correct answer is D.

As is used to compare ACTIONS. In E, charging is not a verb but an ADJECTIVE. As cannot be used to compare a verb (charge) to an adjective (charging). For E to compare actions, it would have to use ellipsis to imply the following:

...more than three times as many...institutions...CHARGE under $8,000...as those charging over $16,000 CHARGE.

The implied meaning above creates an error of redundancy (charging and charge).

The ellipsis in D is better because it compares two ACTIONS without an error of redundancy:

...more than three times as many...institutions...CHARGE under $8,000...as CHARGE over $16,000.

Last edited by GMATGuruNY on Sun Sep 04, 2011 6:15 am, edited 2 times in total.

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force5: Legendary Member; Posts: 582; Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2011 12:48 amFollowed by: 6 members; Thanked: 61 times; GMAT Score:740

by force5 » Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:47 am

n A, B and C, than is incorrect. The correct idiom is as many X as Y. Eliminate A, B and C.

In E, more than three times as many charge....as those charging is not a parallel comparison. Eliminate E.

The correct answer is D. The basic structure in D:

...more than three times as many...institutions...charge under $8,000...as charge over $16,000.

thanks Mitch i really appreciate it.

i have 2 questions.
(1) i don't understand why have you ruled out E so convincingly. as per tense parallelism we try to keep the same tense unless the question demands. why cant a comparison be made between x who charge and y who are charging.... ( since both are present tense)??
(2) moreover in D- who is the subject of the 2nd comparison..

...more than three times as many...institutions...charge under $8,000...as charge over $16,000. ( who is charging these $16000?? now my question is how ellipsis work? what is the limit to text being assumed.

i had this similar problem in this question too.

https://www.beatthegmat.com/according-to ... 79272.html

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GMATMadeEasy: Legendary Member; Posts: 768; Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:46 amFollowed by: 7 members; Thanked: 21 times

by GMATMadeEasy » Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:04 am

@Mitch : thank you so much for pitching in.

The correct answer is D. The basic structure in D:
...more than three times as many...institutions...charge under $8,000...as charge over $16,000.

I have almost same question as force5 : how do we justify usage of ellipsis here . Could you plase explain in detail with respect to the question under discussion.

[/b]

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GMATGuruNY: GMAT Instructor; Posts: 15539; Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 12:04 pmFollowed by: 1906 members; Location: New York, NY; Thanked: 13060 times; GMAT Score:790

by GMATGuruNY » Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:44 am

In A, B and C, than is incorrect. The correct idiom is as many X as Y. Eliminate A, B and C.

In E, more than three times as many charge....as those charging is not a parallel comparison. Eliminate E.

The correct answer is D. The basic structure in D:

...more than three times as many...institutions...charge under $8,000...as charge over $16,000.

thanks Mitch i really appreciate it.

i have 2 questions.
(1) i don't understand why have you ruled out E so convincingly. as per tense parallelism we try to keep the same tense unless the question demands. why cant a comparison be made between x who charge and y who are charging.... ( since both are present tense)??
(2) moreover in D- who is the subject of the 2nd comparison..

When the second clause in a comparison lacks a subject, the subject from the first clause is implied in the second clause.
D: Three times as many institutions charge under $8000 as charge over $16,000.
Here, the clause in red lacks a subject.
Thus, the subject from the first clause -- institutions -- is implied in the second clause:
Three times as many institutions charge under $8000 as [institutions] charge over $16,000.

Two reasons to eliminate E:

E: Three times as many institutions charge...as those charging
Only PARALLEL FORMS may be compared.
Here, a MODIFIER (charging) is compared to a VERB (charge).

Also, as many as + those is not a valid structure.
INCORRECT: Twice as many students study math as those who play tennis.
CORRECT: Twice as many students study math as play tennis.

Eliminate E.

Last edited by GMATGuruNY on Wed Apr 27, 2016 2:53 am, edited 6 times in total.

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hardikm: Senior | Next Rank: 100 Posts; Posts: 64; Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2009 2:52 pmFollowed by: 1 member; Location: Dallas; Thanked: 10 times

by hardikm » Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:50 am

atulmangal wrote:According to a 1996 survey by the National Association of College and University Business Officers, more than three times as many independent institutions of higher education charge tuition and fees of under $8,000 a year than those that charge over $16,000.
A. than those that charge
B. than are charging
C. than to charge
D. as charge
E. as those charging

as many X as Y

X = many independent institutions charge tuition etc.
Y those charging ..........

my answer is E

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[email protected]: Senior | Next Rank: 100 Posts; Posts: 57; Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 6:42 pm

by [email protected] » Sun Sep 22, 2013 3:06 am

Hi Mike,

Thanks for your reply. I get a little confused with these convoluted comparisons in GMAT.

So, I just thought I will categorize them and get confirmation from you on it.

The way I see it is as below.

Comparisons using the form as...as typically fall in the below categories:

Comparing the numbers

1. Comparison of two groups doing the same action. (My intention is: Number of Americans who buy pizza= 2*(number of Indians who buy pizza)

Different ways of writing such sentence:
Twice as many Americans as Indians buy pizza. (or)
Twice as many Americans buy pizza as Indians. (Here " Indians do" is not mentioned. "do" is in ellipsis.)
Twice as many Americans buy pizaa as Indians do.

2. Comparison of two groups doing different actions. (My intention is: Number of Americans who buy pizza=2*(Num of Indians who buy salad)

Different ways:
Twice as many Americans buy pizza as Indians buy salad. (or)
Twice as many Americans buy pizza as Indians who buy salad. <-- is this correct?

3. Comparison of same group doing different actions. (My intention is: Number of Americans who choclate=2*(Num of Americans who buy pizza)

Different ways:
Twice as many Americans buy chocolate as buy pizza. (Here "those" is in ellipsis)
Twice as many Americans buy chocolate as those who buy pizza. <--- is this correct?
Twice as many Americans buy chocolate as those that buy pizza <--- is this correct?

Comparing the likelihoods

Comparison of likelihood of two groups to do the same action

Different ways:
Americans are twice as likely as Indians to buy pizza. (or)
Americans are twice as likely to buy pizza as Indians. (or) (Here "do" is in ellipsis) <--- is this correct?
Americans are twice as likely to buy pizza as Indians do.

Comparison of likelihood of the two groups doing different actions

Different ways:
Americans are twice as likely to buy pizza as Indians are to buy salad.

Comparison of likelihood of the same group to do different actions

Different ways:
Americans are twice as likely to buy chocolate as to buy pizza.
Americans are twice as likely to buy chocolate as pizza. <--- is this correct?

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\'manpreet singh: Master | Next Rank: 500 Posts; Posts: 271; Joined: Tue May 22, 2012 3:22 amFollowed by: 3 members; Thanked: 7 times

by \'manpreet singh » Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:55 pm

I did went for E because according to me in D the subject is missing."THAT" should be used to make it clear.But yes E does have a parralelism error.charge and charging are not parallel.

Such a question would not come in GMAT as the answer is very clear and unambiguous there.

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