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Galileo---Kaplan 800

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Galileo---Kaplan 800

by raju232007 » Wed May 05, 2010 10:23 am
Galileo's theory that ours was indeed a solar system, in which Earth and other planets revolve around the sun, reinforced those of Copernicus.

(A) ours was indeed a solar system, in which Earth and other planets revolve around the sun, reinforced those of Copernicus
(B) ours was indeed a solar system, in which Earth and other planets revolve around the sun, reinforced that of Copernicus
(C) our solar system was indeed solar for Earth and the other planets revolve around the sun, reinforced Copernicus'
(D) our system was indeed solar, in which Earth and other planets revolved around the sun, reinforced those of Copernicus
(E) Earth and the other planets revolve around the sun in our solar system reinforces that of Copernicus


I tried searching for an explanation for this tricky question in this forum.But there isn't a single explanation that is satisfactory..I am confused between B an E..

B clearly emphasizes on the definition of solar system by using in which..but I don't see anything wrong with E either. This is a question from Kaplan 800 and the ans provided is B ..

Present tense is preferred while stating facts ...But choice B, which is the correct answer uses past tense.As it can be clearly observed E uses present tense. Will E sound better if a comma is placed after solar system?

I kindly request the experts to give a sound explanation ....
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by FightWithGMAT » Wed May 05, 2010 12:02 pm
raju232007 wrote:Galileo's theory that ours was indeed a solar system, in which Earth and other planets revolve around the sun, reinforced those of Copernicus.

(A) ours was indeed a solar system, in which Earth and other planets revolve around the sun, reinforced those of Copernicus
(B) ours was indeed a solar system, in which Earth and other planets revolve around the sun, reinforced that of Copernicus
(C) our solar system was indeed solar for Earth and the other planets revolve around the sun, reinforced Copernicus'
(D) our system was indeed solar, in which Earth and other planets revolved around the sun, reinforced those of Copernicus
(E) Earth and the other planets revolve around the sun in our solar system reinforces that of Copernicus


I tried searching for an explanation for this tricky question in this forum.But there isn't a single explanation that is satisfactory..I am confused between B an E..

B clearly emphasizes on the definition of solar system by using in which..but I don't see anything wrong with E either. This is a question from Kaplan 800 and the ans provided is B ..

Present tense is preferred while stating facts ...But choice B, which is the correct answer uses past tense.As it can be clearly observed E uses present tense. Will E sound better if a comma is placed after solar system?

I kindly request the experts to give a sound explanation ....
If we observe carefully, E changes the meaning of the sentence.

B says "other planets"-Galileo did not know all the planet he talked about.
E says "the other planets"- shows that Galileo knew what the other planets had been.

To keep the intended meaning of the sentence, B is justified.
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by rockeyb » Wed May 05, 2010 8:14 pm
raju232007 wrote:Galileo's theory that ours was indeed a solar system, in which Earth and other planets revolve around the sun, reinforced those of Copernicus.

(A) ours was indeed a solar system, in which Earth and other planets revolve around the sun, reinforced those of Copernicus
(B) ours was indeed a solar system, in which Earth and other planets revolve around the sun, reinforced that of Copernicus
(C) our solar system was indeed solar for Earth and the other planets revolve around the sun, reinforced Copernicus'
(D) our system was indeed solar, in which Earth and other planets revolved around the sun, reinforced those of Copernicus
(E) Earth and the other planets revolve around the sun in our solar system reinforces that of Copernicus


I tried searching for an explanation for this tricky question in this forum.But there isn't a single explanation that is satisfactory..I am confused between B an E..

B clearly emphasizes on the definition of solar system by using in which..but I don't see anything wrong with E either. This is a question from Kaplan 800 and the ans provided is B ..

Present tense is preferred while stating facts ...But choice B, which is the correct answer uses past tense.As it can be clearly observed E uses present tense. Will E sound better if a comma is placed after solar system?

I kindly request the experts to give a sound explanation ....
A problems with option E .

(E) Earth and the other planets revolve around the sun in our solar system reinforces that of Copernicus.

What reinforces the theories of Copernicus ? Solar system or Galileo's theory ?

Option E seems to suggest its solar system . And that is not what the sentence is intending to say . So in short this is a modifier issue .

Placing a comma and changing reinforces to reinforced makes the phrase reinforced that of Copernicus in to a participle phrase that modifies the subject Galileo's theory.
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by frank1 » Thu May 06, 2010 2:02 am
rockeyb wrote:
A problems with option E .

(E) Earth and the other planets revolve around the sun in our solar system reinforces that of Copernicus.

What reinforces the theories of Copernicus ? Solar system or Galileo's theory ?

Option E seems to suggest its solar system . And that is not what the sentence is intending to say . So in short this is a modifier issue .

Placing a comma and changing reinforces to reinforced makes the phrase reinforced that of Copernicus in to a participle phrase that modifies the subject Galileo's theory.
on offence but i think it is just like deciding an answer first,then finding process for that answer

any way the reason i eliminated B is 'was'
it suggests it was solar system....i think it still is true and that process has not changed now....so i think present tense will be better here

plus about explanation
boy,who is shouting,is black
who is black....still i think boy is black holds...

so i stand with the tropic poster's confusion....
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by rockeyb » Thu May 06, 2010 2:50 am
@frank1 ,

My friend you did not get my explanation .
plus about explanation
boy,who is shouting,is black
who is black....still i think boy is black holds...
I am not talking about placing comma between a subject boy,who is shouting,is black and the verb IS .

Instead I am talking about a PARTICIPLE phrase that appears at the end of the sentence .

A participle can be a present participle OR a past participle.

Present Participle is formed by adding - Ing to the the verb .

Ex : I have signed up for a cooking class.

A past participle is formed when we add - ed to the verb . But this changes for some other verbs.

Ex : Watched pot never boils .

Some rules about punctuation in participle phrase :
Punctuation: When a participial phrase begins a sentence, a comma should be placed after the phrase.
"¢ Arriving at the store, I found that it was closed.
"¢ Washing and polishing the car, Frank developed sore muscles.
If the participle or participial phrase comes in the middle of a sentence, it should be set off with commas only if the information is not essential to the meaning of the sentence.
"¢ Sid, watching an old movie, drifted in and out of sleep.
"¢ The church, destroyed by a fire, was never rebuilt.
Note that if the participial phrase is essential to the meaning of the sentence, no commas should be used:
"¢ The student earning the highest grade point average will receive a special award.
"¢ The guy wearing the chicken costume is my cousin.
If a participial phrase comes at the end of a sentence, a comma usually precedes the phrase if it modifies an earlier word in the sentence but not if the phrase directly follows the word it modifies.
"¢ The local residents often saw Ken wandering through the streets.
(The phrase modifies Ken, not residents.)
"¢ Tom nervously watched the woman, alarmed by her silence.
(The phrase modifies Tom, not woman.)
If you want to know more about participle phrase have a look at this link : https://www.mpcfaculty.net/essc/handouts/PartPh.htm

Also the rules above are not mine . I picked them up from a grammar website .

I still believe my explanation above holds true .
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by samarpan_bschool » Thu May 06, 2010 5:52 am
rockeyb wrote:
raju232007 wrote:Galileo's theory that ours was indeed a solar system, in which Earth and other planets revolve around the sun, reinforced those of Copernicus.

(A) ours was indeed a solar system, in which Earth and other planets revolve around the sun, reinforced those of Copernicus
(B) ours was indeed a solar system, in which Earth and other planets revolve around the sun, reinforced that of Copernicus
(C) our solar system was indeed solar for Earth and the other planets revolve around the sun, reinforced Copernicus'
(D) our system was indeed solar, in which Earth and other planets revolved around the sun, reinforced those of Copernicus
(E) Earth and the other planets revolve around the sun in our solar system reinforces that of Copernicus


I tried searching for an explanation for this tricky question in this forum.But there isn't a single explanation that is satisfactory..I am confused between B an E..

B clearly emphasizes on the definition of solar system by using in which..but I don't see anything wrong with E either. This is a question from Kaplan 800 and the ans provided is B ..

Present tense is preferred while stating facts ...But choice B, which is the correct answer uses past tense.As it can be clearly observed E uses present tense. Will E sound better if a comma is placed after solar system?

I kindly request the experts to give a sound explanation ....
A problems with option E .

(E) Earth and the other planets revolve around the sun in our solar system reinforces that of Copernicus.

What reinforces the theories of Copernicus ? Solar system or Galileo's theory ?

Option E seems to suggest its solar system . And that is not what the sentence is intending to say . So in short this is a modifier issue .

Placing a comma and changing reinforces to reinforced makes the phrase reinforced that of Copernicus in to a participle phrase that modifies the subject Galileo's theory.
rockeyb - just a clarification. In option B 'reinforced' is the main verb in past tense. (reinforce - reinforced - reinforced). In my understanding, past participle is generally used as an an adjective before a noun (or) after a comma modifying the previous subject.

In our case (option B), the COMMA is used for the modifier ' , in which Earth and other planets revolve around the sun, '.

Hope we have an agreement
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by rockeyb » Thu May 06, 2010 8:27 am
@samarpan_bschool,

You are right the comma is used for the modifier and the participle phrase works as an adjective for the subject .
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by thephoenix » Thu May 06, 2010 10:39 am
@rockeyb
untill now i was in assuming that comma past participle(i.e -ed) is a noun modifier and should modify the closest noun preceding it

@ stacey's quote
An "-ed" modifier is a noun modifier, not an adverbial modifier, and should modify the closest primary noun preceding it (in the "comma -ed" setup).
from this link
https://www.beatthegmat.com/ing-modifier ... 38943.html

in that case IMO in option b here reinforced should modify sun the closest noun preceding it....
am i missing something
pls help me to understand the concept and clarify the rule
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by Stacey Koprince » Thu May 06, 2010 10:56 am
Received a PM asking me to reply. I can only reply briefly because this is a Kaplan question, and a couple of years ago, Kaplan asked us not to address their questions.

I'll talk more about the concept that phoenix has asked about, the "comma -ed" setup. What I wrote in the other post was about a "comma -ed" used as a modifier. That's not actually how the above problem is written.

The stuff between the two commas is a noun modifier, modifying "solar system." The commas are, therefore, "attached" to the modifier between them. If you remove that modifier, the commas would also disappear. The comma before "reinforced," then, is not actually "attached" to "reinforced" - that comma is not splitting "reinforeced" off as a "comma -ed" modifier.

Aren't sentences complicated? Sigh.

Take out the two commas and all of the words in between. You would have something like this:

Susie's theory that studying is helpful reinforced that of John.

Can you figure out what role "reinforced" plays in the sentence now? See if you can figure it out; if not, let me know, and I'll explain further. :)
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by thephoenix » Thu May 06, 2010 11:08 am
thanks stacey

one more query can a construction as given below be correct
noun ,(modifier),(modifier),which
long back there was a post having such construction as a correct option in this same forum
some how i have misplaced it ....
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by Stacey Koprince » Thu May 06, 2010 12:30 pm
Potentially, yes, though that's pretty rare. But you're right - there's a GMATPrep or OG question that does have something like that - something about canoes. (If I remember correctly, though, we can answer that question without having to worry about what noun the "which" stuff is referring back to.)
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by A.Kiran » Sat May 15, 2010 5:13 pm
So my understanding is,


Case 1 : -ed modifier modifies the previous noun...

Case 2: similarly some sentence forms like: noun (appositive ), which .., verb....


in both cases it modifies The PRIMARY NOUN ( -ED setup , and WHICH set UP )


is this right ???


Sentence: Susie's theory that studying is helpful reinforced that of John.

Here the Reinforced ( ed setup ) modifies the previous noun that is Theory and not the Helpful ( adjective) nor the studying (Gerund)


right ?
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by A.Kiran » Sat May 15, 2010 5:32 pm
one more thing to ask:


That clause it is confusing me here


That clause here is used as a noun modifier / noun pharse.



Sentence : Susie's theory that studying is helpful reinforced that of John.

What is the noun phase ??----------- Susie's theory that ???
or that is simply reiterating .....[ that=susie's theory ? as a relative pronoun ? ]



RULE: i know that, NOUN + That = noun modifer/ noun phrase...


am confused ....
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by bupbebeo » Sat May 15, 2010 11:20 pm
Stacey Koprince wrote:Received a PM asking me to reply. I can only reply briefly because this is a Kaplan question, and a couple of years ago, Kaplan asked us not to address their questions.

I'll talk more about the concept that phoenix has asked about, the "comma -ed" setup. What I wrote in the other post was about a "comma -ed" used as a modifier. That's not actually how the above problem is written.

The stuff between the two commas is a noun modifier, modifying "solar system." The commas are, therefore, "attached" to the modifier between them. If you remove that modifier, the commas would also disappear. The comma before "reinforced," then, is not actually "attached" to "reinforced" - that comma is not splitting "reinforeced" off as a "comma -ed" modifier.

Aren't sentences complicated? Sigh.

Take out the two commas and all of the words in between. You would have something like this:

Susie's theory that studying is helpful reinforced that of John.

Can you figure out what role "reinforced" plays in the sentence now? See if you can figure it out; if not, let me know, and I'll explain further. :)
Hey, stacy Koprince, in your example Susie's theory that studying is helpful reinforced that of John.


According to my understanding, Reinforced in this case modifies Susie's theory.

However, if there were a comma before " reinforced. such as Susie's theory that studying is helpful, reinforced that of John. the reinforced in this case may support studying.

is my understanding right, please help!!!
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by Stacey Koprince » Tue May 18, 2010 9:40 am
A question for both of you. In the following sentence, what is the subject and what is the verb? Try to simplify the sentence even further.

Susie's theory that studying is helpful reinforced that of John.
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