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Among lower-paid workers, union members are less likely

by aditya8062 » Wed Apr 30, 2014 3:36 am
Among lower-paid workers, union members are less likely than nonunion members to be enrolled in lower-end insurance plans imposing stricter limits on medical services and requiring doctors to see more patients, and spend less time with each.
(A) imposing stricter limits on medical services and requiring doctors to see more patients, and spend
(B) imposing stricter limits on medical services, requiring doctors to see more patients, and spending
(C) that impose stricter limits on medical services, require doctors to see more patients, and spend
(D) that impose stricter limits on medical services and require doctors to see more patients, spending
(E) that impose stricter limits on medical services, requiring doctors to see more patients and spending

if D is expanded then it becomes :that impose stricter limits on medical services and [that] require doctors to see more patients, spending

comma+verbing should make sense with the subject of the previous clause .in D the subject of the previous clause is the subject of "that" clause ,which is "lower-end insurance plans".This interpretation gives me a very wrong meaning that "lower-end insurance plans" are spending less time !
if i see the other way round then "doctors" cannot be the subject of "spending" as "doctors to see more patients" is not the clause before the comma because "to see" cannot act like a "verb"

what am i getting wrong
thanks
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by GMATGuruNY » Wed Apr 30, 2014 6:30 am
aditya8062 wrote:Among lower-paid workers, union members are less likely than nonunion members to be enrolled in lower-end insurance plans imposing stricter limits on medical services and requiring doctors to see more patients, and spend less time with each.
(A) imposing stricter limits on medical services and requiring doctors to see more patients, and spend
(B) imposing stricter limits on medical services, requiring doctors to see more patients, and spending
(C) that impose stricter limits on medical services, require doctors to see more patients, and spend
(D) that impose stricter limits on medical services and require doctors to see more patients, spending
(E) that impose stricter limits on medical services, requiring doctors to see more patients and spending

if D is expanded then it becomes :that impose stricter limits on medical services and [that] require doctors to see more patients, spending

comma+verbing should make sense with the subject of the previous clause .in D the subject of the previous clause is the subject of "that" clause ,which is "lower-end insurance plans".This interpretation gives me a very wrong meaning that "lower-end insurance plans" are spending less time !
if i see the other way round then "doctors" cannot be the subject of "spending" as "doctors to see more patients" is not the clause before the comma because "to see" cannot act like a "verb"

what am i getting wrong
thanks
Generally, the agent of a COMMA + VERBing modifier is the nearest preceding subject or implied subject.
OA: plans that require DOCTORS TO SEE more patients, spending less time with each.
Here, DOCTORS are required TO SEE more patients.
For this reason, doctors is considered the implied subject of to see.
As a result, spending appropriately refers to doctors (the nearest preceding implied subject).
Conveyed meaning:
When doctors SEE more patients, they will be SPENDING less time with each patient.
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by tathastuGMAT » Sat May 03, 2014 1:46 am
aditya8062 wrote:Among lower-paid workers, union members are less likely than nonunion members to be enrolled in lower-end insurance plans imposing stricter limits on medical services and requiring doctors to see more patients, and spend less time with each.
(A) imposing stricter limits on medical services and requiring doctors to see more patients, and spend
(B) imposing stricter limits on medical services, requiring doctors to see more patients, and spending
(C) that impose stricter limits on medical services, require doctors to see more patients, and spend
(D) that impose stricter limits on medical services and require doctors to see more patients, spending
(E) that impose stricter limits on medical services, requiring doctors to see more patients and spending

if D is expanded then it becomes :that impose stricter limits on medical services and [that] require doctors to see more patients, spending

comma+verbing should make sense with the subject of the previous clause .in D the subject of the previous clause is the subject of "that" clause ,which is "lower-end insurance plans".This interpretation gives me a very wrong meaning that "lower-end insurance plans" are spending less time !
if i see the other way round then "doctors" cannot be the subject of "spending" as "doctors to see more patients" is not the clause before the comma because "to see" cannot act like a "verb"

what am i getting wrong
thanks
Hi Aditya8062,

There is no strict rule that such a modifier always modifies the subject of the previous clause. On GMAT such modifiers mostly modify the subject of the previous clause(or entire clause when expressing result)but that can't be a rule.

The correct usage is as follows:
An end modifier introduced by a present participle and separated by commas mostly modifies
(i) the subject of previous clause
(ii)the whole clause, if it is expressing result
(iii) may refer back to an in between noun in the previous clause. Such a construction is considered correct.

To select the correct antecedent you need to consider the meaning. If you find a logically connected noun referent, that's all correct.

Example: I watched the sun rise over the ridge, blazing over houses, farms, and fields.
Here "blazing over houses, farms, and fields" is not modifying "I" but "Sun" and this is perfectly alright.

Consider the following GMATPrep question on same rule:

United States Senator Daniel Inouye was appointed to several posts within the Democratic Party during his first term, that included assistant majority whip and vice-chair of the Democratic Senatorial Committee.
(A) that included
(B) which includes
(C) including
(D) some of which were
(E) among them being

(C) is the correct answer. "including assistant majority whip and vice-chair of the Democratic Senatorial Committee" is modifying "posts" but not "United States Senator Daniel Inouye"

Hope it's clear now.

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by aditya8062 » Sat May 03, 2014 2:14 am
I watched the sun rise over the ridge, blazing over houses, farms, and fields.
Here "blazing over houses, farms, and fields" is not modifying "I" but "Sun" and this is perfectly alright.
i doubt whether this sentence is official .this sentence is wrong .

also the function of "including" is that of "preposition" in that sentence .hence it is not acting as "comma+verbing" modifier.
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by tathastuGMAT » Sat May 03, 2014 9:27 am
aditya8062 wrote:
I watched the sun rise over the ridge, blazing over houses, farms, and fields.
Here "blazing over houses, farms, and fields" is not modifying "I" but "Sun" and this is perfectly alright.
i doubt whether this sentence is official .this sentence is wrong .

also the function of "including" is that of "preposition" in that sentence .hence it is not acting as "comma+verbing" modifier.

This may be an ugly problem but a GMATPrep problem.
Refer the following thread. The author of the thread affirmed that this is a GMATPrep question. Also, refer post number 12 by "ChrisB". ChrisB said that he also encountered the problem through his student.
https://www.manhattangmat.com/forums/inc ... t7343.html

Assuming these guys are not lying, I conclude this is a GMATPrep problem.

Also see "ChrisB" explanation in which he says it's an Adverbial Modifier.
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by aditya8062 » Sat May 03, 2014 9:44 am
i was talking about this sentence :I watched the sun rise over the ridge, blazing over houses, farms, and fields.

i had quoted that sentence .kindly have a look again at my previous post
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by tathastuGMAT » Sat May 03, 2014 11:40 pm
aditya8062 wrote:i was talking about this sentence :I watched the sun rise over the ridge, blazing over houses, farms, and fields.

i had quoted that sentence .kindly have a look again at my previous post
This is just an example to understand the concept. I never claimed this is official question. Plz refer my first post.

Also why do you think this is a wrong sentence?
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by richachampion » Sat Apr 23, 2016 4:12 am
tathastuGMAT wrote:
aditya8062 wrote:i was talking about this sentence :I watched the sun rise over the ridge, blazing over houses, farms, and fields.

i had quoted that sentence .kindly have a look again at my previous post
This is just an example to understand the concept. I never claimed this is official question. Plz refer my first post.

Also why do you think this is a wrong sentence?
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ss

by richachampion » Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:05 am
GMATGuruNY wrote:
aditya8062 wrote:Among lower-paid workers, union members are less likely than nonunion members to be enrolled in lower-end insurance plans imposing stricter limits on medical services and requiring doctors to see more patients, and spend less time with each.
(A) imposing stricter limits on medical services and requiring doctors to see more patients, and spend
(B) imposing stricter limits on medical services, requiring doctors to see more patients, and spending
(C) that impose stricter limits on medical services, require doctors to see more patients, and spend
(D) that impose stricter limits on medical services and require doctors to see more patients, spending
(E) that impose stricter limits on medical services, requiring doctors to see more patients and spending

if D is expanded then it becomes :that impose stricter limits on medical services and [that] require doctors to see more patients, spending

comma+verbing should make sense with the subject of the previous clause .in D the subject of the previous clause is the subject of "that" clause ,which is "lower-end insurance plans".This interpretation gives me a very wrong meaning that "lower-end insurance plans" are spending less time !
if i see the other way round then "doctors" cannot be the subject of "spending" as "doctors to see more patients" is not the clause before the comma because "to see" cannot act like a "verb"

what am i getting wrong
thanks
Generally, the agent of a COMMA + VERBing modifier is the nearest preceding subject or implied subject.
OA: plans that require DOCTORS TO SEE more patients, spending less time with each.
Here, DOCTORS are required TO SEE more patients.
For this reason, doctors is considered the implied subject of to see.
As a result, spending appropriately refers to doctors (the nearest preceding implied subject).
Conveyed meaning:
When doctors SEE more patients, they will be SPENDING less time with each patient.
Here Option C is trying to project a parallelism:
(C) that impose stricter limits on medical services, require doctors to see more patients, and spend

Trying to put:
impose
require
spend in || forms

But spend cannot be in its list because of the meaning issue.

Meaning Issue: insurance plans spend less time...
The above is a non-sensical meaning. Because insurance plans can't spend less or more time, but a human being such as a doctor can. That's why it creates a nonsensical meaning and hence it cant be a member of the ||ism list, Right?

Question #2
The current C:
(C) that impose stricter limits on medical services, require doctors to see more patients, and spend


Modified C:

(C) that impose stricter limits on medical services, require doctors to see more patients and spend

Comma omitted after the patients and before "and": I think this will be correct now?
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by GMATGuruNY » Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:34 pm
richachampion wrote:Here Option C is trying to project a parallelism:
(C) that impose stricter limits on medical services, require doctors to see more patients, and spend

Trying to put:
impose
require
spend in || forms

But spend cannot be in its list because of the meaning issue.

Meaning Issue: insurance plans spend less time...
The above is a non-sensical meaning. Because insurance plans can't spend less or more time, but a human being such as a doctor can. That's why it creates a nonsensical meaning and hence it cant be a member of the ||ism list, Right?
Correct!
Question #2
The current C:
(C) that impose stricter limits on medical services, require doctors to see more patients, and spend


Modified C:

(C) that impose stricter limits on medical services, require doctors to see more patients and spend

Comma omitted after the patients and before "and": I think this will be correct now?
The revision above is not viable.
Because no conjunction connects the first two verbs in red, all three verbs in red seem to constitute a list of actions attributed to insurance plans, as follows:
Insurance plans that IMPOSE, REQUIRE and SPEND.
The implication is that INSURANCE PLANS SPEND less time with each patient -- a nonsensical meaning.

Another meaning issue:
insurance plans that require doctors to see more patients and [to] spend less time with each.
Here, the usage of and implies that the action in red is DISTINCT from the action in blue.
Not so.
The action in red is a COMPONENT of the action in blue.
The intended meaning is that -- when doctors SEE more patients -- they will at the same time be SPENDING less time with each patient.
This meaning is correctly conveyed by the OA:
insurance plans that impose stricter limits on medical services and require doctors to see more patients, spending less time with each.

Since the OA correctly conveys the intended meaning, we should not attempt to fix the remaining answer choices.
It is unlikely that any fix will be superior to the OA.
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by richachampion » Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:59 pm
GMATGuruNY wrote:
The revision above is not viable.
Because no conjunction connects the first two verbs in red, all three verbs in red seem to constitute a list of actions attributed to insurance plans, as follows:
Insurance plans that IMPOSE, REQUIRE and SPEND.
The implication is that INSURANCE PLANS SPEND less time with each patient -- a nonsensical meaning.

Another meaning issue:
insurance plans that require doctors to see more patients and [to] spend less time with each.
Here, the usage of and implies that the action in red is DISTINCT from the action in blue.
Not so.
The action in red is a COMPONENT of the action in blue.
The intended meaning is that -- when doctors SEE more patients -- they will at the same time be SPENDING less time with each patient.
This is something new to learn.

Should I Takeaway this from the discussion:
Please confirm sir if my understanding is correct:

when "and" = X and Y; where X and Y are two actions that means those actions are separate and are not happening simultaneously, Right?
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by GMATGuruNY » Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:24 am
richachampion wrote:Should I Takeaway this from the discussion:
Please confirm sir if my understanding is correct:

when "and" = X and Y; where X and Y are two actions that means those actions are separate and are not happening simultaneously, Right?
The insurance plans require doctors to see more patients and to spend less time with each.
Here, two actions are required of doctors:
They must SEE more patients.
They must SPEND less time with each patient.
The timing of these two actions is not known.
They might happen simultaneously.
They might happen at different times.
Only one thing is known:
Both actions are required.

The insurance plans require doctors to see more patients, spending less time with each.
Here, the action in red is a COMPONENT of the action in blue.
Put another way:
The red action expresses HOW the blue action is performed.
Question: HOW will doctors SEE more patients?
Answer: They will be SPENDING less time with each patient.
This is the intended meaning.
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