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Military Officer Application Questions

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Military Officer Application Questions

by rmcguire7 » Mon Jul 26, 2010 7:20 pm
I have an atypical application and after searching far and wide for a similar profile, I have not found one. Here are my big three stats:
GMAT: 620 (39q 36v)
GPA: 3.44 BA History '05
Work Experience: 6 years (when I apply) plus 2.5 years part time 

I have been an Army officer since graduating and will have served in Korea, Iraq, and Afghanistan (all for 12 months) in a variety of positions. Of note are two:
1) Fire Support Officer- I signed for and distributed over $6,000,000 cash to the local community in efforts to rebuild their economy. Started and was in charge o numerous work and security programs and started and led a  3.000+ member Farmers Coop which was successfully linked into the Iraqi Ministry of Agriculture. 
I did this with no business background and is what inspired me to move into the business world and get an MBA.

2) Brigade Intelligence Officer- This is a Major's position that I am filling as a Captain, so I am definitely working in a position above my peers.

I plan on using both in my essays and anticipate the essays being a strength.

I have 3 questions:

1) Without taking my GMAT over, will my GPA and work experience mitigate the 620? Do I look like a strong candidate for schools with a higher average GMAT score than mine, but in which I fall into their 80% (i.e. Duke's 80% is from 620-750, but average is ~685)? I am looking at Duke, USC, and Cornell at the top of my wishlist.

2) Are there any top 30 schools that particularly like military officer experience?

3) Is my military experience a liability or an asset when applying? I think it comes down to a strong leadership background versus lack of business experience.

Thanks for the answers, I know others have similar questions!

-this is a repose as I posted this question in the wrong forum...
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by Kaneisha Grayson » Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:48 pm
RMcGuire7:

I just want to wrap my arms around you and give you a hug!

Now that the creepy intro is over, I just wanted to say that you sound awesome and I think that you can totally get into a great b-school.

I had a 620 GMAT score when I applied to and was accepted to Harvard Business School and one of my recent clients was accepted into Kellogg with a GMAT under 650.

I'm not saying you'll get into all of the schools you listed--or even many of them--but you can definitely get into ONE of them, so just make sure you only apply to schools you want to go to.

I think you have a fantastic story and just need to work on telling it as well as you can.

I don't know if HBS is particularly attracted to military folks, but I know there were plenty in my graduating class! A good friend of mine served in the Air Force for many years and was 35 while at HBS. He did phenomenally while there and had a great time.

One thing I can tell you is that I think your military experience will be nothing but an asset when applying. I completely agree with you about the leadership experience. Just make sure that comes out in your essays.

Be encouraged! You sound like you have a great story! And don't worry if you don't find anyone else with your profile. Isn't the whole point to be so interesting and original that you stand out and the schools really want you?
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by rmcguire7 » Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:19 am
Haha, thanks Kaneisha!

I'm debating whether or not to refocus on the GMAT and take it again... Quite a big decision. I'm very confident with the rest of my application, but I'm leaning toward rededicating myself to getting a higher GMAT score. I would like the score to be, at a minimum, not a liability, so 650 or above.

Thanks again!
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by Kaneisha Grayson » Tue Aug 03, 2010 11:06 am
Sounds like a good idea! Just don't focus on your GMAT sooo much that you skimp on writing awesome essays. Those are the most important part!
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by Alon Karmiel » Tue Aug 31, 2010 2:13 pm
I think too that its a good idea to retake GMAT. You bring a lot to the table but bringing an additional strong element may be very helpful. This is especially because in the military, vets are rarely using excel spreadsheets or financial models. Strong GMAT can mitigate a concern that you lack these analytical skills. Also any vet who can talk about some sort of analytical ability or experience they had in the military will be in a better position. Just having an example where they used a logical approach to solving problems will also help (think Hypothesis based research).

There are some really huge strengths that veterans have and comparative advantages over other applicants, and there are also some weaknesses that military candidates need to address in order to make their application even stronger. Overall I think that military experience is an asset. All military vets who went to business schools and whom I know were quite successful in studying and recruiting.

The strengths that veterans bring are:

1. Leadership and management skills at a very young age- many veterans will have combat experience and have led Soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan. These stories are lay-ups and can really be interesting to the admissions committee.

2. Understanding, reading, and motivating people- as officers in the military, vets are exposed to a wide range of man and women from multiple backgrounds, socio-economic status, and education. For that reason, you must quickly learn how to read and understand people and as an officer you must know how to motivate them. Often times, vets find themselves helping soldiers with family, financial, and life issues...and as a young officer you are quickly exposed to the role of counselor, mentor, and advisor. Combine this with the experience of combat and you have a very mature candidate who knows human nature much better than their counterpart.

3. International and Cultural Experiences- this is strength for those who have deployed or have sailed around the world. The responsibilities of officers in dealing with key leaders in Iraq and Afghanistan are immense.

4. Ability to work in a high-stress, long hour environment- this is another reason why banks and consulting firms hire ex military at large rates from business schools. Veterans have worked long hours under intense stress and something in combat...Sitting at a desk and doing some excel work isn't so bad compared to that.

5. Perspective- Being at one of the top schools in the world is pretty easy compared with what veterans had to do before.

Some of the potential weaknesses in additional to potential lack of experience with analytical tasks that should be addressed:

1. Experience and understanding of the business world- any MBA applicant coming out of the military should really do their homework in preparation for the business school. They must know the differences between Industries and must know what route they are planning to take after school. Having some specific firms or careers in mind, with a large amount of research done before will be key to success.

2. Using military jargon- you need to drop the military jargon and get to know how to explain your experiences in "civilian" or business terms. Do your research and talk to other vets who have gotten their MBA.

3. Not being comfortable talking about yourself or speaking in the "we"- in the military, it is frowned upon to talk about your successes in the first person...instead solders always mention what they did as a team. While, this team-oriented approach is strength, not selling yourself can hurt as well. Vets must be comfortable marketing themselves.

I hope this helps.

Alon
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by caledonia » Sun Oct 24, 2010 1:24 am
Hi, I am in a similar position as rmcguire7 but have a slightly different background and circumstances. I left the service this past November after 6.5 years as an infantry officer and have deployed to Iraq as a leader of 20+ men. In my last Army assignment I dealt with higher level issues such as materiel acquisition, organizational restructuring, and Knowledge Management. I would like to get my MBA from schools such as HBS, Wharton, and Columbia.

I graduated from West Point in 2003 with an Electrical Engineering degree and a GPA of 2.67, which I know is below par for top business schools. I have a 680 GMAT score.

My first question is how much a top b-school might take into account the undergrad program and institution? I'm hoping that the fact that EE is a challenging program, and that West Point is a challenging institution with significant mandatory extracurricular activities, will help me. I'm sure that if I had attended a state school and majored in literature or political science I would have a much higher GPA.

The second question is the value of my recent and current work experience. I am currently serving a year in Afghanistan as a civilian contractor embedded with an infantry brigade (3,000+ people) as a Knowledge Management (KM) Officer. I am part of our military's first effort in history to place individuals in a combat theater with the objective of streamlining information flow and other systems and processes. I have also worked in KM for two years at the US Army Infantry Center. I want to use my MBA to learn how businesses operate and then start a KM consulting business in the civilian sector.

The third question is the value of a non-MBA masters degree from a good school to raised my GPA and overall CV. I would ideally go right into a tier 1 MBA program but am considering a detour to increase my chances. I have been accepted to Carnegie Mellon's Masters in Information Technology program, which is congruent with my KM path. I would be able to take some of the courses online from here in Afghanistan. Would getting a very high GPA from CMU help my chances?

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
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by sorter » Sun Oct 24, 2010 3:51 am
1) I just shot you a PM, but wanted to also say publicly for any other military applicants that you are competitive, although you will have to address the GPA with a solid GMAT and nail your essays.

2) Your experience is great - assuming you were a successful PL. Lots of valuable diverse, international experience there. No clue about the KM exp - that must be something new. I don't recall that from my brigade, but I'm sure you can sell that pretty well in essays. Sounds like you're passionate about it.

3) I think the CMU route is unnecessary unless you are dead-set on the very top schools (H, S, W).

All that is my opinion - I'm a potential applicant like you, but I've been researching this stuff for a while. I'm biased, but any successful Infantry PL with combat experience has a competitive background. You still have to write great essays, provide top notch references, and interview well, but the foundation is there.
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