reference of 'that' in OG sentence

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by lunarpower » Thu Jul 12, 2012 1:26 am
vikram4689 wrote:What is the function of when in below sentence from OG. when only acts as conjunction or adverb. if 'when' acts as conjunction, simultaneous actions are described but that is not the case here. Only case remains that 'when' acts a adverb but which verb it is modifying. to me it seems to modify at nights or on weekends

As the cost of wireless service has steadily dropped over the last year and as mobile phones have become increasingly common, many people are finding that they can avoid toll charges on their home phones by using their mobile phones to make long-distance calls at night or on weekends, when many wireless companies provide unlimited airtime for a small monthly fee
i actually don't know what grammatical name you would give to that "when", but it's definitely a legitimate construction. all you have to know is that "when" can modify time periods.
if you just remember the way in which "when" is used in this example -- and can recognize that kind of usage in future instances -- then you're all set.

here's another example:
On Saturday afternoon, when I was visiting my grandparents, an earthquake struck.
again, i don't know the formal grammar analysis here. it's clear that "when" is modifying (on) Saturday afternoon, which is a time period, so you're all good here.

--

more generally, you should avoid an over-emphasis on naming things -- because the whole skill set of naming things is completely irrelevant to this exam. all you need is functional knowledge; i.e., you just have to be able to USE these constructions. it's immaterial whether you can name them.

as an analogy:
do you know what all the parts of a window are called?
probably not.
does this mean you can't open, close, or fix a window?
of course not.

same goes for sentences.
the only things you really have to be able to name are the super-basic building blocks (noun, verb, clause, etc.) as far as these sorts of unique or eccentric examples are concerned, there's no need to waste your time on terminology; just learn how they do work and how they don't work.
Ron has been teaching various standardized tests for 20 years.

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by vikram4689 » Thu Jul 12, 2012 5:12 pm
lunarpower wrote:
vikram4689 wrote:What is the function of when in below sentence from OG. when only acts as conjunction or adverb. if 'when' acts as conjunction, simultaneous actions are described but that is not the case here. Only case remains that 'when' acts a adverb but which verb it is modifying. to me it seems to modify at nights or on weekends

As the cost of wireless service has steadily dropped over the last year and as mobile phones have become increasingly common, many people are finding that they can avoid toll charges on their home phones by using their mobile phones to make long-distance calls at night or on weekends, when many wireless companies provide unlimited airtime for a small monthly fee
i actually don't know what grammatical name you would give to that "when", but it's definitely a legitimate construction. all you have to know is that "when" can modify time periods.
if you just remember the way in which "when" is used in this example -- and can recognize that kind of usage in future instances -- then you're all set.

here's another example:
On Saturday afternoon, when I was visiting my grandparents, an earthquake struck.
again, i don't know the formal grammar analysis here. it's clear that "when" is modifying (on) Saturday afternoon, which is a time period, so you're all good here.

--

more generally, you should avoid an over-emphasis on naming things -- because the whole skill set of naming things is completely irrelevant to this exam. all you need is functional knowledge; i.e., you just have to be able to USE these constructions. it's immaterial whether you can name them.

as an analogy:
do you know what all the parts of a window are called?
probably not.
does this mean you can't open, close, or fix a window?
of course not.

same goes for sentences.
the only things you really have to be able to name are the super-basic building blocks (noun, verb, clause, etc.) as far as these sorts of unique or eccentric examples are concerned, there's no need to waste your time on terminology; just learn how they do work and how they don't work.
Thanks Ron, one more doubt regarding antecedent... you mentioned that sentence - Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white shark, the man-eater of the movies, fewer than those killed by bee strings - is WRONG because those cannot refer to people from "only seven people"( last post on https://www.manhattangmat.com/forums/can ... t4278.html )
However, MGMAT SC mentions Her company is outperforming THAT OF her competitor is correct. According to your statement that in mgmat sc sentence should refer to her company. it seems that the uses of THAT are contradicting in these 2 instances... is my interpretation wrong ?
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by Bill@VeritasPrep » Thu Jul 12, 2012 7:23 pm
vikram4689 wrote:
lunarpower wrote:
vikram4689 wrote:What is the function of when in below sentence from OG. when only acts as conjunction or adverb. if 'when' acts as conjunction, simultaneous actions are described but that is not the case here. Only case remains that 'when' acts a adverb but which verb it is modifying. to me it seems to modify at nights or on weekends

As the cost of wireless service has steadily dropped over the last year and as mobile phones have become increasingly common, many people are finding that they can avoid toll charges on their home phones by using their mobile phones to make long-distance calls at night or on weekends, when many wireless companies provide unlimited airtime for a small monthly fee
i actually don't know what grammatical name you would give to that "when", but it's definitely a legitimate construction. all you have to know is that "when" can modify time periods.
if you just remember the way in which "when" is used in this example -- and can recognize that kind of usage in future instances -- then you're all set.

here's another example:
On Saturday afternoon, when I was visiting my grandparents, an earthquake struck.
again, i don't know the formal grammar analysis here. it's clear that "when" is modifying (on) Saturday afternoon, which is a time period, so you're all good here.

--

more generally, you should avoid an over-emphasis on naming things -- because the whole skill set of naming things is completely irrelevant to this exam. all you need is functional knowledge; i.e., you just have to be able to USE these constructions. it's immaterial whether you can name them.

as an analogy:
do you know what all the parts of a window are called?
probably not.
does this mean you can't open, close, or fix a window?
of course not.

same goes for sentences.
the only things you really have to be able to name are the super-basic building blocks (noun, verb, clause, etc.) as far as these sorts of unique or eccentric examples are concerned, there's no need to waste your time on terminology; just learn how they do work and how they don't work.
Thanks Ron, one more doubt regarding antecedent... you mentioned that sentence - Only seven people this century have been killed by the great white shark, the man-eater of the movies, fewer than those killed by bee strings - is WRONG because those cannot refer to people from "only seven people"( last post on https://www.manhattangmat.com/forums/can ... t4278.html )
However, MGMAT SC mentions Her company is outperforming THAT OF her competitor is correct. According to your statement that in mgmat sc sentence should refer to her company. it seems that the uses of THAT are contradicting in these 2 instances... is my interpretation wrong ?
In the second example ("her company...") the comparison takes place in a single clause, whereas the example in the linked thread has a comparison taking place over two clauses (as Ron mentions in that thread).
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by lunarpower » Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:12 pm
Bill@VeritasPrep wrote:In the second example ("her company...") the comparison takes place in a single clause, whereas the example in the linked thread has a comparison taking place over two clauses (as Ron mentions in that thread).
yep.
Ron has been teaching various standardized tests for 20 years.

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Potete chiedere domande a Ron in italiano
On peut poser des questions à Ron en français
Voit esittää kysymyksiä Ron:lle myös suomeksi

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Quand on se sent bien dans un vêtement, tout peut arriver. Un bon vêtement, c'est un passeport pour le bonheur.

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by vikram4689 » Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:48 am
lunarpower wrote:
Bill@VeritasPrep wrote:In the second example ("her company...") the comparison takes place in a single clause, whereas the example in the linked thread has a comparison taking place over two clauses (as Ron mentions in that thread).
yep.
Bill, Ron,
yes earlier one has 2 clauses while later has 1. what is the reason for different behavior when antecedent is in different clause
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