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The use of --> OG-12 Explanation confusion

by gmat25 » Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:16 am
The use of lie detectors is based on the assumption that lying produces emotional reactions in an individual that, in turn, create unconscious physiological responses.

(A) that, in turn, create unconscious physiological responses

(B) that creates unconscious physiological responses in turn

(C) creating, in turn, unconscious physiological responses

(D) to create, in turn, physiological responses that are unconscious

(E) who creates unconscious physiological responses in turn

OA given is Op A

OG Explanation:-- This sentence describes a cause-and-effect sequence; in the underlined portion of the sentence, the relative pronoun that refers to the plural noun reactions. The verb in the relative clause must therefore be a plural verb.

Here, THAT is a relative pronoun and is placed close to "individual". I agree logically THAT should refer to reactions but in context of rule / syntax is this structure always correct. Or here THAT is actually referring to the NOUN PHRASE "emotional reactions in an individual". Second, We have no need to apply touch rule only in case of THAT or in case of all other pronouns such as WHO etc?????
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by amit2k9 » Wed Jul 20, 2011 4:05 am
Indeed a good example this one is.

this is one of those exceptions termed as mission critical modifiers.

Ex: He had a way of dodging opponents that impressed the scouts.

here that refers to a way of dodging opponents and not just opponents.

Similarly,

An ice sheet covers 80 % of the surface of greenland,an area roughly the size of alaska.

here an area refers to 80% ...Greenland.

Thus, that here refers to emotional reactions (a noun/subject) here.
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by e-GMAT » Wed Jul 20, 2011 5:06 am
Noun modifiers can modify slightly far away nouns as well if such modification does not result in any ambiguity. This applies to all kinds of modifiers that modify nouns.

In choice A, it makes logical sense for "that modifier" to modify the reactions. In fact it modifies the complete noun phrase (emotional reactions in individual). Note here that in this sentence, there is no ambiguity in reference because 'that modifier' cannot modify the closest noun "individual" as "that" cannot refer to a human being. "Who" can modify human beings.

However, in Choice C, the modifier "creating..." can logically modify the closest noun - individual. This is because it makes complete sense to say that individual creates unconscious physiological responses. But now with this reference, the original intended meaning is distorted. And hence this choice is incorrect.

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by gmat25 » Wed Jul 20, 2011 6:11 am
@e-gmat and @amit

Thanks for your prompt reply. I already know that such modifiers can modify the whole preceding NOUN PHRASE and thanks for conforming that once again.

2- more questions:

1) I have seen such usage in case of WHICH / THAT...does this same thing hold true for WHO also???

2) Whats the exact problem in Op E, is it the placement of "in turn"??? If i modify the Op E and rewrite the same as:

who, in turn, creates unconscious physiological responses

Now this above modified structure seems logical to me because finally its the individual who creates the response and new modified placement of "in turn" correctly suggests why the individual creates response . M i right here???
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by e-GMAT » Wed Jul 20, 2011 6:55 am
gmat25 wrote: 1) I have seen such usage in case of WHICH / THAT...does this same thing hold true for WHO also???
Yes,the same thing applies for "who" as well. For example:

Tom Mullack was the only member in the committee who did not get a Master's degree in any technical field.

In this sentence, "who modifier" modifies "only member" and not the closest noun - committee.
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by e-GMAT » Wed Jul 20, 2011 7:05 am
gmat25 wrote: 2) Whats the exact problem in Op E, is it the placement of "in turn"??? If i modify the Op E and rewrite the same as:

who, in turn, creates unconscious physiological responses

Now this above modified structure seems logical to me because finally its the individual who creates the response and new modified placement of "in turn" correctly suggests why the individual creates response . M i right here???
gmat25, to understand why choice E is incorrect, you need to be confident about what the sentence actually means.

The use of lie detectors is based on the assumption that lying produces emotional reactions in an individual that, in turn, create unconscious physiological responses.

This sentence explains the assumption behind the use of lie detectors.
1: Lying produces emotional reactions in an individual
2: These emotional reactions then create unconscious physiological responses.

Now according to your re-structured choice E, the individual himself creates the unconscious physiological response. This is clearly not the intended meaning of the sentence. This is exactly why choice E is incorrect. The modifier "who" modifies "individual", and this is incorrect in the context of this sentence.

So it is absolutely essential to understand what the sentence is trying to communicate. Otherwise you may mark a grammatically correct but meaning- wise incorrect answer choice.

Payal
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by gmat25 » Wed Jul 20, 2011 7:13 am
@e-gmat

Thanks a lot!!! i got your points. Your post really helped.

Thanks a lot once again!!!
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by eastcoastrocks » Wed Jul 20, 2011 7:29 am
e-GMAT wrote:Noun modifiers can modify slightly far away nouns as well if such modification does not result in any ambiguity. This applies to all kinds of modifiers that modify nouns.

In choice A, it makes logical sense for "that modifier" to modify the reactions. In fact it modifies the complete noun phrase (emotional reactions in individual). Note here that in this sentence, there is no ambiguity in reference because 'that modifier' cannot modify the closest noun "individual" as "that" cannot refer to a human being. "Who" can modify human beings.

However, in Choice C, the modifier "creating..." can logically modify the closest noun - individual. This is because it makes complete sense to say that individual creates unconscious physiological responses. But now with this reference, the original intended meaning is distorted. And hence this choice is incorrect.

Payal
Thanks for explaining the difference between how these two behave. Its interesting to note how both are noun modifiers but one modifies reactions (correct) and the other modifies individuals (incorrect).
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by mundasingh123 » Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:48 pm
e-GMAT wrote:
gmat25 wrote:

This is clearly not the intended meaning of the sentence.

So it is absolutely essential to understand what the sentence is trying to communicate. Otherwise you may mark a grammatically correct but meaning- wise incorrect answer choice.

Payal
Hi Egmat,
Whats the definition of the intended meaning of the sentence . Is it the meaning that is conveyed by the original meaning of the sentence. Shall we assume that anything that any choice that changes the meaning of the sentence is incorrect .
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by e-GMAT » Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:14 pm
Yes, the meaning is governed by the original sentence. If any other choice distorts this meaning, then that choice should be eliminated. Note however that there may very well be a scenario in which the original sentence does not express a logical meaning. In such cases, we should try to infer the logical meaning and select the choice that expresses that meaning.
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by jonathan123456 » Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:26 pm
e-GMAT wrote:Noun modifiers can modify slightly far away nouns as well if such modification does not result in any ambiguity. This applies to all kinds of modifiers that modify nouns.

In choice A, it makes logical sense for "that modifier" to modify the reactions. In fact it modifies the complete noun phrase (emotional reactions in individual). Note here that in this sentence, there is no ambiguity in reference because 'that modifier' cannot modify the closest noun "individual" as "that" cannot refer to a human being. "Who" can modify human beings.

However, in Choice C, the modifier "creating..." can logically modify the closest noun - individual. This is because it makes complete sense to say that individual creates unconscious physiological responses. But now with this reference, the original intended meaning is distorted. And hence this choice is incorrect.

Payal
thanks for clarifying the diff bet A and C
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by jainpiyushjain » Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:18 pm
e-GMAT wrote:Noun modifiers can modify slightly far away nouns as well if such modification does not result in any ambiguity. This applies to all kinds of modifiers that modify nouns.

In choice A, it makes logical sense for "that modifier" to modify the reactions. In fact it modifies the complete noun phrase (emotional reactions in individual). Note here that in this sentence, there is no ambiguity in reference because 'that modifier' cannot modify the closest noun "individual" as "that" cannot refer to a human being. "Who" can modify human beings.

Payal

After understanding the meaning of the sentence, I attacked the Verb "create" for subject verb agreement. Although I choose A, I am little puzzled with that modifying noun phrase emotional reactions in an individual, which is plural.

Can we use that instead of those to modify plural nouns ?

Thank you
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by EducationAisle » Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:55 pm
jainpiyushjain wrote: Can we use that instead of those to modify plural nouns ?
Thank you
Would you say:

A) Take only the pencils that are sharpened.

OR

B) Take only the pencils those are sharpened.

Basically, relative pronouns (such as "that" in A) can refer to both singular and plural nouns.
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