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by gauravgundal » Fri Mar 12, 2010 4:31 pm
The interstitial nucleus, a sub-region of the brain's hypothalamus, is typically smaller for male cats than for female cats. A neurobiologist performed autopsies on male cats who died from disease X, a disease affecting no more than 0.5 percent of male cats, and found that these male cats had interstitial nuclei that were as large as those generally found in female cats. Thus, the size of the interstitial nucleus determines whether or not male cats can contract disease X, but, the hypothalamus is known not to be causally linked to disease Y, and disease X is a subtype of disease Y.
The two portions in boldface play which of the following roles?
(A) The first is a fact in support of the consideration that is one of two points of this argument; the second is the alternative point that weighs against the first.
(B) The first is an evidence that supports the consideration that the argument includes; the second is the fact that weighs against that consideration that could be drawn from the first.
(C) The first is a general principle that is against the conclusion; the second is that conclusion.
(D) The first is an evidence that supports the conclusion; the second is an exceptional example.
(E) The first is a fact in support of the conclusion that the argument depends on; the second is a fact that is against the first one.


[spoiler]please explain why the second part can't be "the fact that weighs against that consideration that could be drawn from the first".
and how the second bold part is the alternative point that weighs against the first.[/spoiler]
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by mohit11 » Sat Mar 13, 2010 5:44 am
gauravgundal wrote:The interstitial nucleus, a sub-region of the brain's hypothalamus, is typically smaller for male cats than for female cats. A neurobiologist performed autopsies on male cats who died from disease X, a disease affecting no more than 0.5 percent of male cats, and found that these male cats had interstitial nuclei that were as large as those generally found in female cats. Thus, the size of the interstitial nucleus determines whether or not male cats can contract disease X, but, the hypothalamus is known not to be causally linked to disease Y, and disease X is a subtype of disease Y.
The two portions in boldface play which of the following roles?
(A) The first is a fact in support of the consideration that is one of two points of this argument; the second is the alternative point that weighs against the first.
(B) The first is an evidence that supports the consideration that the argument includes; the second is the fact that weighs against that consideration that could be drawn from the first.
(C) The first is a general principle that is against the conclusion; the second is that conclusion.
(D) The first is an evidence that supports the conclusion; the second is an exceptional example.
(E) The first is a fact in support of the conclusion that the argument depends on; the second is a fact that is against the first one.


[spoiler]please explain why the second part can't be "the fact that weighs against that consideration that could be drawn from the first".
and how the second bold part is the alternative point that weighs against the first.[/spoiler]

Tricky, i narrowed it down to A and B. I pick B.

because, based on the first fact, the author concludes that the size of the interstitial nucleus determines whether or not male cats can contract disease X.

I guess both A and B describe the first boldface in the same way with a subtle difference in words. Second one .. oh my my.. this is tough...Second is a fact..

Its taking too much time.. I'd pick B and move on...

Someone please explain
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by Phirozz » Sat Mar 13, 2010 9:04 am
gauravgundal wrote:The interstitial nucleus, a sub-region of the brain's hypothalamus, is typically smaller for male cats than for female cats. A neurobiologist performed autopsies on male cats who died from disease X, a disease affecting no more than 0.5 percent of male cats, and found that these male cats had interstitial nuclei that were as large as those generally found in female cats. Thus, the size of the interstitial nucleus determines whether or not male cats can contract disease X, but, the hypothalamus is known not to be causally linked to disease Y, and disease X is a subtype of disease Y.
The two portions in boldface play which of the following roles?
(A) The first is a fact in support of the consideration that is one of two points of this argument; the second is the alternative point that weighs against the first.
(B) The first is an evidence that supports the consideration that the argument includes; the second is the fact that weighs against that consideration that could be drawn from the first.
(C) The first is a general principle that is against the conclusion; the second is that conclusion.
(D) The first is an evidence that supports the conclusion; the second is an exceptional example.
(E) The first is a fact in support of the conclusion that the argument depends on; the second is a fact that is against the first one.


[spoiler]please explain why the second part can't be "the fact that weighs against that consideration that could be drawn from the first".
and how the second bold part is the alternative point that weighs against the first.[/spoiler]
really tricky one.. even i picked B.
lets see what others haev to say on this
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by kstv » Sat Mar 13, 2010 10:32 am
Took 4 mins and choose B which it seems is not the OA
The interstitial nucleus, a sub-region of the brain's hypothalamus, is typically smaller for male cats than for female cats. A neurobiologist performed autopsies on male cats who died from disease X, a disease affecting no more than 0.5 percent of male cats, and found that these male cats had interstitial nuclei that were as large as those generally found in female cats. Thus, the size of the interstitial nucleus determines whether or not male cats can contract disease X, but, the hypothalamus is known not to be causally linked to disease Y, and disease X is a subtype of disease Y. The two portions in boldface play which of the following roles?
Still feel strongly it is B
the first boldface is the report of the investigation not a fact. It is contrary to the estb fact that The interstitial nucleus is typically smaller for male cats than for female cats. Consideration of the argument is whether disease X affect the size of interstitial nucleus. Relation of disease X and Y is not a consideration but a fact and it weighs against the consideration.
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by lunarpower » Mon Mar 15, 2010 2:03 am
kstv wrote: the first boldface is the report of the investigation not a fact. It is contrary to the estb fact that The interstitial nucleus is typically smaller for male cats than for female cats.
nope, this is incorrect, and you're missing some key signal words, too.

first of all, the passages will never contradict themselves.
if you think that a passage is self-contradictory, then it is GUARANTEED that you are reading something incorrectly.
sometimes, passages have "apparent contradictions" or "apparent paradoxes", but these are not directly contradictory statements; rather, they are seemingly opposing results, which can nevertheless be reconciled in some way.

i.e., you will NEVER see a passage that says X is bigger than Y, and then turns around and states that the same X is smaller than, or the same size as, the same Y.

--

secondly, you're missing the important signal word "typically".
this word indicates that we're stating something that is typically true -- i.e., that's the TREND, or the thing that is true MOST of the time.

if a passage states that something is "typically" true, "usually" true, "normally" true, etc., it is very, very likely that the passage is preparing to present an EXCEPTION to that pattern.

that's what's happening here: the male cats typically have a smaller I.N., but THESE particular cats don't.
Consideration of the argument is whether disease X affect the size of interstitial nucleus. Relation of disease X and Y is not a consideration but a fact and it weighs against the consideration.
you seem to be assuming that "fact" and "consideration" are mutually exclusive. this assumption is mistaken.

the term consideration can refer any statement that is used in support of another statement. a "consideration" can be either a fact or a claim.
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by lunarpower » Mon Mar 15, 2010 2:06 am
two more things

--

(1) probably the easiest way to eliminate (b) is to notice the following words:
... that could be drawn from the first.
this isn't true at all -- there is no logical connection between this statement and the first statement.

--

(2) what's the source of this problem?
either it hasn't been transcribed correctly, or it was written by someone who just doesn't know how to write very well.
i mean -- "the fact that weighs against that consideration that could be drawn from the first" -- i had to read this five times to make any sense of it. three "that"s in a row!
also, there's no such thing as "an evidence". "evidence" is a mass noun (like "seafood" or "furniture" or "silverware"); you don't put a/an in front of such nouns.
finally, "... that is against the conclusion" isn't proper english, and "that the argument depends on" should say on which the argument depends.

obviously, these petty misdeeds of writing don't affect the logic of the argument, but shoddy writing is usually a giveaway as to the problems' poor quality in general.
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by vineetbatra » Fri Mar 19, 2010 1:50 pm
Is the OA A in this question? If it is then using Ron's point
(1) probably the easiest way to eliminate (b) is to notice the following words:
... that could be drawn from the first.
this isn't true at all -- there is no logical connection between this statement and the first statement.
the second is the alternative point that weighs against the first
I think my question is the same what is the difference between

the second is the alternative point that weighs against the first

and

the second is the fact that weighs against that consideration that could be drawn from the first.

Ron - Help please??
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by lunarpower » Sun Mar 21, 2010 3:03 am
vineetbatra wrote:Is the OA A in this question? If it is then using Ron's point
(1) probably the easiest way to eliminate (b) is to notice the following words:
... that could be drawn from the first.
this isn't true at all -- there is no logical connection between this statement and the first statement.
the second is the alternative point that weighs against the first
I think my question is the same what is the difference between

the second is the alternative point that weighs against the first

and

the second is the fact that weighs against that consideration that could be drawn from the first.

Ron - Help please??
i think the biggest problem with (b) is that it's so badly written that it really doesn't mean anything at all.

i.e., there are two completely different ways in which it can be interpreted:

the second is the fact that weighs against that consideration that could be drawn from the first
or
the second is the fact that weighs against that consideration that could be drawn from the first

the first of these interpretations (the way in which i first read the words) indicates that the second boldface statement itself may be drawn from the first.
the second is similar to choice (a).
this is an unacceptable ambiguity -- and, worse yet, the writing is so bad that it's awkward/ungrammatical in BOTH of these cases!
moreover, "THE fact" is also problematic in both interpretations: this article implies that there is only one such fact possible.
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by lunarpower » Sun Mar 21, 2010 3:10 am
on further consideration, i decided to poke around the internet a little bit and locate the original question.

this is the original:
https://gmatclub.com/forum/nucleus-diff-81970.html
(please let me know if that link ever becomes defunct; the question is also posted in a couple of other locations)

the original question is sensible, and rather challenging.

the version in this thread appears to have been created, from that original version, by a writer whose first language is very clearly not english. (there are telltale signs of the work of a non-native speaker, especially the several misuses of "a/an/the".)

it's clear what this writer is trying to do -- s/he is trying to take the same logic that solves the aforementioned question, and convert it into a new "boldface" question -- but the writing of the new answer choices is sufficiently bad that their meaning, especially in the intended correct answer, is severely distorted or even lost altogether.

my recommendation is to ignore this version of the question and refer to the original (contained, among other places, on the thread to which i linked above).
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