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NYTimes -- use of past perfect 'had' ?

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NYTimes -- use of past perfect 'had' ?

by sui generis » Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:53 am
For decades, government officials had blamed rural apathy for India's high illiteracy rates, saying that families preferred sending their children into the fields, not the classroom.

Got this excerpt form nytimes*. I am not able to understand why past perfect 'had blamed' is used at first place followed by simple past 'preferred' ?

Anyone please shed some light. Thanks.





*Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/31/world ... &ref=world
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by chris@magoosh » Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:38 pm
The New York Times - always a great resource for honing your SC skills :).

In this case, we have the past perfect. Notice that the sentence begins with 'For decades..."

That is, for decades - say from 1970 - 2000 - the government had blamed. Meaning that it is no longer blaming rural apathy. It now probably cites some other factor for the high illiteracy rate, such as lack of educational opportunities. But for a period in the past it had been doing something. Therefore we want past perfect.

Now for the next verb - preferred.

During the time period that the government had blamed, it gave a reason for the high illiteracy rates: families preferred X. We want simple past because, during the decades that the government blamed illiteracy on rural apathy, families preferred X.

Had the sentence read: "saying that families had preferred..." then the government, during the decades it was making this claim, would be implying that at some past time period - say from 1950 - 1960 - families preferred X.

I hope that makes sense :).
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by sui generis » Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:52 pm
Thanks Chris for the explanation. However, I have a doubt regarding usage of past perfect. I believe the usage of 'past perfect' such sentences is optional i.e. simple past would also do the job.

Below are two sentences from NYT conforming to above mentioned rule of optional usage:


For decades, the government had banned real estate sales and kept a jealous grip on construction.
Source: https://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/inte ... index.html

For decades, the government banned real estate sales and kept a jealous grip on construction.
https://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/16/world ... wanted=all

Please confirm this understanding ? Thanks
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by killer1387 » Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:00 am
these two sentences intend to take different stands with concern to meanings. grammatically both are fine.
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by sui generis » Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:32 am
@killer1387: I didn't really get the two implicit meaning you are referring to. Could you please elaborate on the two different meaning ?

Additionally, I came across another sentence from NYT.

Mr. Khade's elder brother, Datta, had managed to get an apprenticeship as a welder at a government-owned ship building company, Mazagon Dock, in Mumbai. He persuaded young Ashok to move to the big city.

Again, first the author used 'had managed' followed by simple past 'persuaded' in the next sentence. Any explanations for this ? Is it somehow written in passive voice ? Experts please help ?

Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/22/world ... wanted=all
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by lunarpower » Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:58 am
SG, read this post:
https://www.manhattangmat.com/forums/pos ... tml#p58397
sui generis wrote:Additionally, I came across another sentence from NYT.

Mr. Khade's elder brother, Datta, had managed to get an apprenticeship as a welder at a government-owned ship building company, Mazagon Dock, in Mumbai. He persuaded young Ashok to move to the big city.

Again, first the author used 'had managed' followed by simple past 'persuaded' in the next sentence. Any explanations for this ? Is it somehow written in passive voice ? Experts please help ?
"X had managed to get an apprenticeship..." is something that was completed by the time of the other action (the attempt at persuasion). so, the past perfect signals this sense of completion.
this comment should make more sense after you read through the post linked above.

also, you may want to review what "passive voice" means; your question above shows a lack of understanding of that term. (no verbs in the sentence above are passive; that would be "X was persuaded", etc.)
if you need to review first principles, just google "english passive voice" and read through the examples in the first few page hits.
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by sui generis » Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:03 am
Thanks for replying, Ron.
Mr. Khade's elder brother, Datta, had managed to get an apprenticeship as a welder at a government-owned ship building company, Mazagon Dock, in Mumbai. He persuaded young Ashok to move to the big city.
"X had managed to get an apprenticeship..." is something that was completed by the time of the other action (the attempt at persuasion). so, the past perfect signals this sense of completion.
I thought those two sentences are independent as they are separated by period. But had there been first statement only, would past perfect still be used ?
X had managed to get an apprenticeship as a welder at a Mazagon Dock. Is this sentence correct or simple past is needed ?
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by sui generis » Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:08 am
For decades, the government had banned real estate sales and kept a jealous grip on construction. Materials were scarce, red tape endless and inspectors meddlesome. Black marketeers would deliver cinder blocks by cover of darkness, and purchasing a bag of sand was a furtive process akin to buying drugs.
Source: https://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/inte ... index.html

For decades, the government banned real estate sales and kept a jealous grip on construction. Materials were scarce, red tape endless and inspectors meddlesome. Black marketeers would deliver cinder blocks by cover of darkness, and purchasing a bag of sand was a furtive process akin to buying drugs.
https://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/16/world ... wanted=all
Furthermore, do the aforementioned two sentences have different meanings ? If yes, could you please explain what would they be ?

Thanks
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by lunarpower » Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:53 am
sui generis wrote:I thought those two sentences are independent as they are separated by period. But had there been first statement only, would past perfect still be used ?
X had managed to get an apprenticeship as a welder at a Mazagon Dock. Is this sentence correct or simple past is needed ?
verb tenses are determined entirely by context. if you take away all of the surrounding context, then, in many (if not most) instances, you can't designate a single correct tense.

if this sentence is completely by itself, then it will make sense in almost any tense at all -- as is the case for just about any simple enough sentence. viz.:
i teach high school
i had taught high school
i have taught high school
i will teach high school
i taught high school
all of these could potentially make sense, given the right context.

when verb tenses are tested on GMAC SC's (less commonly than you might think -- verb tense is not a major topic), you will notice that the sentences always contain enough time and/or context clues to give meaningful input into the tense selection.
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by lunarpower » Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:56 am
sui generis wrote:For decades, the government had banned real estate sales and kept a jealous grip on construction.
this one would make sense if the article goes on to describe the situation after the ban was lifted.
if the situation is viewed from the standpoint of that time period -- i.e., from a point in the past after the removal of the ban -- then this tense works.
For decades, the government banned real estate sales and kept a jealous grip on construction.
if the article is simply narrating what the situation was like at the time -- and not describing the situation from a point of view situated after the removal of the ban -- then, as in other direct narrations of past events, the past tense works.
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by sui generis » Mon Mar 05, 2012 4:44 am
Thanks a lot again, Ron. Perfectly makes sense.
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by lunarpower » Mon Mar 05, 2012 4:54 am
you're welcome.
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