BREAKING: Target Test Prep releases Brand New 2026 On Demand GMAT prep course

Redeem

please help explain ... permutation/comb prob??

Expert replies
by karenmeow » Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:26 am
I copy and pasted from a Kaplan online test (some of the parts are missing in the explanation). In the explanation, it says to divide by 2 because C has to be to the right of D. Where does the 2 come from?? I am lost here. Thanks!

Q: In how many different ways can the letters A, A, B, B. B, C, D, E be arranged if the letter C must be to the right of the letter D?
1,680
2,160
2,520
3,240
3,360

A: We have a total of 8 letters. Some of the letters appear more than once. The requirement of the question stem that the letter C is to be to the right of the letter D, with the letters D and C each appearing once.

If n is a positive integer, the number of different ways to arrange n different objects is n!, where n! is the product of the first n positive integers. Thus, n! = n(n − 1)(n − 2) … (3)(2)(1).

If we had 8 different letters, the number different of ways to arrange the 8 letters would be 8! = (8)(7)(6)(5)(4)(3)(2)(1). Because the letter A appears twice, we must divide 8! by 2!. Because the letter B appears 3 times, we must divide 8! by 3!. So the number of different ways to arrange the letters A, A, B, B, B, C, D, E is 8!/(2!3!). We also have the requirement that the letter C is to the right of the letter D. For any specified locations of the letter C and the letter D, there are the same number of arrangements for the other 6 letters when C is to the right of D and D is to the right of C. So we must divide the number of possible arrangements of all the letters by 2. So the number of different ways to arrange the letters A, A, B, B. B, C, D, E where the letter D is to the right of the letter C is 1/2 (8!/(2!3!)), which is 8!/((2)2!3!). To find the answer to the question, let's find the value. Choice (A) is correct.
Join the discussion
Source: — Problem Solving |

by pranavc » Mon Jul 07, 2008 1:25 pm
I guess I've gotten quite rusty with my permutations/combinations concepts, but why exactly you divide the total number of possibilities by 2! and 3! for the A's and B's respectively? It would be great if you could fill me in on this bit. Thanks in advance.
Join the discussion

Insanity

by evansbd » Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:01 am
This question is ridiculous...!
Join the discussion

by sudhir3127 » Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:31 am
i think the 2 is because number of way C and D can arrange is 2! which is 2.
Join the discussion

by CITI29 » Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:54 pm
but if condition is that 'c' has to be to the right of 'd'...then dont we need to treat them as 'fixed' alphabets?.

In such a case solution shld be 7!/ (2!3!).

Pls let me know if my understaning is wrong.
Join the discussion

by preetha_85 » Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:24 pm
Hi
The solution goes like this :
U have 8 alphabets nd the condition given is C is to the right of D.
Assume D is in the first pos. then C can g o into any of the other 7 slots nd so can any other alphabet given(i.e 7! ways). But since B is repeated 3 times nd A is repeated 2 twice.. this combination now becomes (7!/(3!*2!)
Now if D is in the 2 nd slot then C can go into only 6 slots (coz of the condition given) then the other alphabets can be arranged in any of the other 6 slots.. so this combination will be (6*(6!/(3!*2!))
Now if D is in 3rd slot then .. (5*(6!/(3!*2!))
nd so on till D is in the last before slot 1*( 6!/(3!*2!))
D in the last slot is not possible.

So the answe will be the sum of all these quantities i.e :
(7!/(3!*2!) + 6!/(3!*2!)) (6+5+4+3+2+1)
i.e 1680
Join the discussion

by spanlength » Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:58 am
We divide by 2 because C can be either right of D or left of D.So in half of the combination its to the left other half it will to the right.
Join the discussion

by moliver » Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:45 am
CITI29 wrote:but if condition is that 'c' has to be to the right of 'd'...then dont we need to treat them as 'fixed' alphabets?.

In such a case solution shld be 7!/ (2!3!).

Pls let me know if my understaning is wrong.
Citi29, C is to the right of D not together.
And I agree with preetha_85
Join the discussion

by CITI29 » Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:19 pm
ahhhhhh....now I get it...thanks guys!
Join the discussion

by diebeatsthegmat » Fri Jun 11, 2010 12:50 am
preetha_85 wrote:Hi
The solution goes like this :
U have 8 alphabets nd the condition given is C is to the right of D.
Assume D is in the first pos. then C can g o into any of the other 7 slots nd so can any other alphabet given(i.e 7! ways). But since B is repeated 3 times nd A is repeated 2 twice.. this combination now becomes (7!/(3!*2!)
Now if D is in the 2 nd slot then C can go into only 6 slots (coz of the condition given) then the other alphabets can be arranged in any of the other 6 slots.. so this combination will be (6*(6!/(3!*2!))
Now if D is in 3rd slot then .. (5*(6!/(3!*2!))
nd so on till D is in the last before slot 1*( 6!/(3!*2!))
D in the last slot is not possible.

So the answe will be the sum of all these quantities i.e :
(7!/(3!*2!) + 6!/(3!*2!)) (6+5+4+3+2+1)
i.e 1680
can i solve it differently?
because there is 2 As and 3 bs thus 8!/2!*3!
C must be right of D so if there is 5! to arrange D and 4! to arrange C
>>>> 8/2!*3!-5!*4=1680
correct me if i am wrong, please
i am not sure about this solution much
Join the discussion

by Testluv » Fri Jun 11, 2010 2:16 am
If we have n distinct objects, there are n! ways of arranging them. For example, if you have a three digit code made up of the digits 1, 2, and 3, there are 3! or 6 different codes (123, 132, 213, 231, 312, 321). But let's say you have a four digit code made up of the digits 1, 2, 3, 3. So, say the code is 1233. Now, if I switch around the last 2 3s, of course I still have 1233: they are not different codes. Imagine if I had 4 3s. Clearly, I can only make one code: 3333. Or, we can say 4!/4! codes.

The formula for finding the number of arrangements of objects when some objects are the same is:

n!/(r!*s!)

in which "n" is the total number of objects and "r" and "s" represent the number of times repeating objects appear.

How many ways of arranging the letters in the word "pepper"? Well, there are 6 letters. So, n is 6, and in the numerator of the formula we have 6!. "p" shows up thrice while "e" shows up twice. So the total number of arrangements is 6!/(3!*2!).

In this question, there are 8 letters but 2As and 3Bs. So, the number of ways of arranging all those letters in the question is 8!/(2!*3!) or 3360.

Now, considering the restriction that C is always to the right of D. Well, let's take two letters x and y. We have 2 ways of arranging them: xy and yx. Notice that in half of the arrangements (ie in one of the arrangements) x is before y while in the other half of the arrangements y is before x. Likewise, here, in the total number of arrangements, C comes before D half the of the times and D before C the other half of the times. So, we just need to divide 3360 by 2.
Kaplan Teacher in Toronto
Join the discussion

by diebeatsthegmat » Fri Jun 11, 2010 5:14 pm
Testluv wrote:If we have n distinct objects, there are n! ways of arranging them. For example, if you have a three digit code made up of the digits 1, 2, and 3, there are 3! or 6 different codes (123, 132, 213, 231, 312, 321). But let's say you have a four digit code made up of the digits 1, 2, 3, 3. So, say the code is 1233. Now, if I switch around the last 2 3s, of course I still have 1233: they are not different codes. Imagine if I had 4 3s. Clearly, I can only make one code: 3333. Or, we can say 4!/4! codes.

The formula for finding the number of arrangements of objects when some objects are the same is:

n!/(r!*s!)

in which "n" is the total number of objects and "r" and "s" represent the number of times repeating objects appear.

How many ways of arranging the letters in the word "pepper"? Well, there are 6 letters. So, n is 6, and in the numerator of the formula we have 6!. "p" shows up thrice while "e" shows up twice. So the total number of arrangements is 6!/(3!*2!).

In this question, there are 8 letters but 2As and 3Bs. So, the number of ways of arranging all those letters in the question is 8!/(2!*3!) or 3360.

Now, considering the restriction that C is always to the right of D. Well, let's take two letters x and y. We have 2 ways of arranging them: xy and yx. Notice that in half of the arrangements (ie in one of the arrangements) x is before y while in the other half of the arrangements y is before x. Likewise, here, in the total number of arrangements, C comes before D half the of the times and D before C the other half of the times. So, we just need to divide 3360 by 2.
i understood. thank you indeed! :)
Join the discussion