Combinatorics, Permutations and Factorials

Problem Solving — algebra and arithmetic (GMAT Focus Edition)
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I am struggling to understand Combinatorics with Repetition. When there is a word like PIZZAZZ is is easier to understand the outcome is:

7!/4! = 7x6x5= 210

BUT, when you have a word problem I am having trouble deciding what to have in my denominator. One example from a book I have is:

If three of seven donkeys are selected for a trek up everest, how many different combinations of donkeys can be selected?

The answer is : 7!/(3!x4!) = 35

My question is why is the denominator 3!x4!, why not just 3! or 4!. This is the crux of my understand problem, I never know whether to include all the IN's as a factorial and the OUT's.

By the nature of these questions isn't one group always in and the rest out? So when do you decide to include either in the denominator? From review it seems sometimes you use both and sometimes you don't.

Somebody please help me see the light with this concept.

Thanks in advance.

(please do not spam this post to ring up your scorecard, unless you have the answer)
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by thephoenix » Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:33 pm
williamthesituation wrote: (please do not spam this post to ring up your scorecard, unless you have the answer)
hey william
as far as i have understood u r in dilemma of when to use Combination and when to use permutation ; in other words one has to decide b/n selection and arrangements .

well the ans is there is always a hint inside the question with the help of which one can decide .
whenever u come across a Question look for the word selection or its synonyms(some times question indirectly force to perform a selection) , in such questions one has to use apply the concept of combination.
for eg:
1
If a committee of 3 people is to be selected from among 5 married couples so that the committee does not include two people who are married to each other, how many such committees are possible?
A. 20 B. 40 C. 50 D. 80 E. 120

2
If there are four distinct pairs of brothers and sisters, then in how many ways can a committee of 3 be formed and NOT have siblings in it?( note here u wnt find the word selection but question is compelling u to perform the task of selection)

3
Out of a classroom of 6 boys and 4 girls the teacher picks a president for the student board, a vice president and a secretary.

What is the probability that only girls will be elected?

for permutation the questions will ask u to perform an action of arranging something
many a times sme question will ask u to first select and then arrangements
these question need bth the concept.....

hth
feel free to ask any thing
i will suggest u to post question where u are struck with the decision of P or C
forum will certainly help u

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by Osirus@VeritasPrep » Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:47 pm
Let's use your donkey example

3 out of 7 donkeys will be selected. Set up an anagram


A B C D E F G
Y Y Y N N N N

the top represents the 7 donkeys

the bottom represents the donkey's that will be selected and the 4 that won't

The equation would be the factorial of the top anagram 7!

divided by the factorial of the repeats of the bottom 3! 4!

so you are left with

7!
----------
3! 4!

= 7 * 5 = 35
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by Mom4MBA » Fri Feb 05, 2010 6:45 am
If three of seven donkeys are selected for a trek up everest, how many different combinations of donkeys can be selected?
the question clearly mentions 'combinations' so no arrangement is required

when we want r out of n we use COMBINATION which has the formula �Cr = n! / [r!(n-r)!]

we want 3 out of 7 = 7C3 = 7!/(3!4!) = 35

:) I know P&C and probability is confusing for many
Stay focused

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by williamthesituation » Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:21 am
osirus0830 wrote:Let's use your donkey example

3 out of 7 donkeys will be selected. Set up an anagram


A B C D E F G
Y Y Y N N N N

the top represents the 7 donkeys

the bottom represents the donkey's that will be selected and the 4 that won't

The equation would be the factorial of the top anagram 7!

divided by the factorial of the repeats of the bottom 3! 4!

so you are left with

7!
----------
3! 4!

= 7 * 5 = 35




How do you know what repeats, in this example it seems easier, the donkeys are either IN or OUT, but my question is when would you make the ANAGRAM 123NNNN, I have a tough time seeing that, to me everything seems IN OR OUT..

THANKS!