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Knewton SC-Comparison-need help

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Knewton SC-Comparison-need help

by 800target » Sun Mar 06, 2011 11:46 pm
Compared to the disappointment experienced by the sports fans after the hometown soccer team was defeated in the tournament last year, this year's loss made the fans proud, for the final game was more exciting than ever before, and the competitors performed as well as they possibly could have.

(A) Compared to the disappointment experienced by the sports fans after the hometown soccer team lost the tournament last year
(B) As compared with sports fans from last year, who were disappointed by the loss of the hometown soccer team in the tournament,
(C) Unlike the hometown soccer team's defeat in last year's tournament, which disappointed the sports fans,
(D) Last year the hometown soccer team was defeated in the tournament, causing the sports fans to feel disappointment but
(E) Different from last year, when the sports fans felt disappointed after the hometown soccer team was defeated in the tournament,
OA: C

Can an expert come and elaborate why C is correct, because A and B also seem ok to me. Also, why D is wrong?? Really confused.
Any Knewton Expert to explain?? Thanks in advance.
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by Fatehdeep Singh » Mon Mar 07, 2011 12:15 am
A) Compared to the disappointment......, this year's loss-Wrong
We are comparing disappointment with loss(comparing different things)
B) As compared with sports fans......, this year's loss-Wrong
We are comparing sports fans with loss(comparing different things)
C) Unlike the hometown soccer team's defeat ......, this year's loss-Right
We are comparing defeat with another defeat(loss)-(comparing logically similar things)
D) Last year the hometown soccer team......, this year's loss-Wrong
We are comparing soccer team with loss(comparing different things)

So C is the correct option.
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by tetura84 » Mon Mar 07, 2011 2:39 am
800target wrote:Compared to the disappointment experienced by the sports fans after the hometown soccer team was defeated in the tournament last year, this year's loss made the fans proud, for the final game was more exciting than ever before, and the competitors performed as well as they possibly could have.

(A) Compared to the disappointment experienced by the sports fans after the hometown soccer team lost the tournament last year
(B) As compared with sports fans from last year, who were disappointed by the loss of the hometown soccer team in the tournament,
(C) Unlike the hometown soccer team's defeat in last year's tournament, which disappointed the sports fans,
(D) Last year the hometown soccer team was defeated in the tournament, causing the sports fans to feel disappointment but
(E) Different from last year, when the sports fans felt disappointed after the hometown soccer team was defeated in the tournament,
OA: C

Can an expert come and elaborate why C is correct, because A and B also seem ok to me. Also, why D is wrong?? Really confused.
Any Knewton Expert to explain?? Thanks in advance.
Difference between compare to vs compare with =
compare to = when comparing dissimilar things but put them in the similar category
compare with = when comparing similar things, side by side comparison

A & B = wrong comparison
D = but = this is parallel marker, we need a comma before but to make "causing the sports fans to feel disappointment " as a modifier.
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by clock60 » Mon Mar 07, 2011 3:27 am
i appreciate the post of Fatehdeep Singh , he said all about this problem

here they test, more logical comparison rather then idioms or grammer
basic word here is non uderlined part this year's loss ,with this word we must compare all other versions
a)Compared to the disappointment .........this year's loss
b)As compared with sports fans .....this year's loss
c) Unlike the hometown soccer team's defeat ....this year's loss perfect version
d)i dont know what is exact way to reject D, but at least i see that we have two independent sentence conected with but without comma, ( i know that Gmat does not test punctuation), any way D is inferior to the C
e)Different from last year.......this year's loss made obviously wrong
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by Adam@Knewton » Wed Mar 16, 2011 7:34 pm
With regards to (D):

Yes, there should be a comma before "but," but that can't be the reason to reject a choice on the GMAT. Instead, stick to our original rule: Comparisons, which is a branch out of Parallel Structure. The word "but" does imply some sort of parallelism. When used as a coordination conjunction connecting two independent clauses, as here, it's not mandatory that they be parallel, but it's ideal. Thus, in (D), we have "Last year, the ... team" but "This year's loss...." These two independent clauses, meant to be contrasted with one another, do not begin with the same kind of subject. Is this rule as firm and hard as the Comparisons rule that allows us to immediately eliminate (A), (B), and (E) for having illogical comparisons? No. However, when (C) clearly compares the right entities (defeat vs. loss) and does so in parallel structure, (D) and its lack of parallelism is going to be always less desirable.
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by clock60 » Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:08 am
Hi Adam
thank you for reply and clarification,
if you are not against i have one more question about D
i read somewhere that if the subject of the main clause is in passive voice, it can`t be modified by ver-ing costruction
for example
the sentence was corrected, using the modern method.-many think that this sentence is wrong.
and the same is in D
soccer team was defeated in the tournament, causing the sports
does this rule work here??
or i am wrong in understanding?
Many thanks
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by tetura84 » Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:22 am
clock60 wrote: i read somewhere that if the subject of the main clause is in passive voice, it can`t be modified by ver-ing costruction
for example
the sentence was corrected, using the modern method.-many think that this sentence is wrong.
and the same is in D
soccer team was defeated in the tournament, causing the sports
does this rule work here??
or i am wrong in understanding?
Many thanks
the sentence was corrected, using the modern method = this is definitely wrong, at least from gmat perspective.
Here, using wrongly modifies the first clause (trying to act as verb modifier), rather it should modify the subject which is in passive.
someone used the modern method to correct the sentence.
So, if I want to write,
Using the modern method, <someone> corrected the sentence.
Now in answer choice D,
Last year the hometown soccer team was defeated in the tournament, causing the sports fans to feel disappointment
= causing fans .. here causing is not modifying the subject, but modifies the whole first clause.
IT IS THE DEFEAT IN THE TOURNAMENT THAT CAUSED THE FANS TO FEEL DISAPPOINTMENT.
IT DOESN'T CARE WHO DEFEATED THEM.
If I want to write,
causing the sports fans to feel disappointment, <<some team>> defeated the hometown soccer team in the tournament.
The meaning is ambiguous.
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by clock60 » Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:36 pm
hi tetura

i of course agree that comma +verb-ing modifiers the preceding clause, it is not debatable
but also i read that subject of the clause must be logical agent of verb-ing modifier. it is difficult for me to explain in grammar terms, so i `ll try on examples

MG sentence correction page 238
Scientists have found high levels of iridium in certain geological formations around the world, suggesting the cataclysmic impact....
here comma+ ing refers to the whole clause, but subject-scientists and modifier suggesting have some logical relation

again in OG 12, page 669 the problem about Dolphin family

The 32 species that make up the dolphin family are closely related to whales and in fact include the animal known as the killer whale, which can grow to be 30 feet long and is famous for its aggressive hunting pods.

A. include the animal known as the killer whale, which can grow to be 30 feet long and is
B. include the animal known as the killer whale, growing as big as 30 feet long and
C. include the animal known as the killer whale, growing up to 30 feet long and being
D. include the animal known as the killer whale, which can grow as big as 30 feet long and is
E. include the animal known as the killer whale, which can grow to be 30 feet long and it is

here b is wrong as it includes modifier, growing that modifiers the whole clause but aslo touches subject -32 species implying that it is 32 species that grow, but not killer whale

so I need further clarification here
thanks
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by Adam@Knewton » Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:50 pm
I think the best way to approach these kinds of questions on the GMAT is to realize that the participial modifier (-ing) is generally ambiguous. In all the wonderful examples above, it's not that it's outright wrong, it's that it's not ideal; when properly placed, the relative pronoun modifier ("which," "who," etc.) is always preferable, because it's clear and unambiguous. Thus, I'd say that (D) in the original question or (B) in the dolphins questions aren't straight-up wrong, but are not preferable, and the GMAT should almost always give you a better, clearer option. Notice that I say almost always: you should never eliminate a choice solely for this reason, the way you do when you see something unequivocal like a subject-verb error or an illogical comparison error.

In that sense, the passive voice in (D) in the original question doesn't make it automatically wrong, but makes it very unlikely. Some will disagree, because participial modifiers are supposed to be adjectives and thus must modify some antecedent noun, and in (D) there is no such noun for "causing..." to logically refer to. However, I'd be uncomfortable on the actual test eliminating an answer for solely this reason, especially if it were choice (A), because (A) is only ever right when it seems wrong.

In summary: "-ing" modifiers can really modify anything and are rarely "wrong," but this very flexibility also makes them ambiguous, so if you're given another correct option that uses a different modification without creating placement errors, it will be better.
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by force5 » Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:54 pm
Yes C is correct due to correct comparison.
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by Target2009 » Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:01 pm
indeed .. C
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