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Recent studies have found teenagers

by gmatdriller » Sun Jun 26, 2011 4:12 am
Recent studies have found that teenagers who listen regularly to the heavy-metal band Suicidal Intentions are ten times as likely to attempt suicide as are other teenagers. It can therefore be concluded that the band's lyrics inspire teenagers to attempt suicide.

Which of the following, if true, most weakens the conclusion of the passage?

A: Teenagers, especially males, commit suicide at much higher rates than do people in any other age group.
B: Among teenagers who listen regularly to the band, only a small minority have attempted suicide.
C: The band's lyrics, which reflect existential despair and nihilism, attract teenagers who have considered attempting suicide.
D: One of the members of the band has himself attempted suicide on three different occasions.
E: Relatively few of the band's regular listeners are teenagers.

I wasted too much time analyzing the question vis-a-vis the interpretation of "ten times as likely to attempt suicide..." I think one should analyze the structure in a common sense, real world scenario. That is, without considering various possible ratios, percentages etc.
According to Ron Purewal, the stems on Strengthen/Weaken should be interpreted using common sense.

On the first trial I chose B. Any critique please?
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by Geva@EconomistGMAT » Sun Jun 26, 2011 4:19 am
gmatdriller wrote:Recent studies have found that teenagers who listen regularly to the heavy-metal band Suicidal Intentions are ten times as likely to attempt suicide as are other teenagers. It can therefore be concluded that the band's lyrics inspire teenagers to attempt suicide.

Which of the following, if true, most weakens the conclusion of the passage?

A: Teenagers, especially males, commit suicide at much higher rates than do people in any other age group.
B: Among teenagers who listen regularly to the band, only a small minority have attempted suicide.
C: The band's lyrics, which reflect existential despair and nihilism, attract teenagers who have considered attempting suicide.
D: One of the members of the band has himself attempted suicide on three different occasions.
E: Relatively few of the band's regular listeners are teenagers.

I wasted too much time analyzing the question vis-a-vis the interpretation of "ten times as likely to attempt suicide..." I think one should analyze the structure in a common sense, real world scenario. That is, without considering various possible ratios, percentages etc.
According to Ron Purewal, the stems on Strengthen/Weaken should be interpreted using common sense.

On the first trial I chose B. Any critique please?
for causal arguments such as this one (A and B appear together, therefore A causes B), there are 2 major ways to weaken an argument:

a. Introduce an alternative cause/explanation for B that does not involve A.
b. Subset of the above: show that it's actually the other way around: not that A causes B, but rather B causes A.

Answer choice C falls under weakener b above: it's not that the lyrics inspire teenagers to commit suicide, it's the otehr way around: the people who listen to the band are predisposed to commit suicide in the first place. In simpler words, it's not "If listen, then suicide", but rather "If suicide, then listen".
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by gsinghal » Sun Jun 26, 2011 4:33 am
IMO C.

Its not the band lyrics that cause teenagers to have suicidal tendencies, but its the teenagers who actually have suicidal tendencies listen to such hard metal music.


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by gmatdriller » Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:01 pm
Geva,
your explanations make sense. The band lyrics attract those category that
have already attempted suicide and not the other way round as alleged.
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by amit2k9 » Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:42 pm
B strengthens the conclusion that teenagers are attempting suicide.
C gives an alternate reason and hence the OA.
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by tanviet » Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:17 am
For causal argument there are 5 ways to weaken/strengthen. The most beautiful part of the book CRITICAL REASONING BIBLE FOR GMAT mentions this relation. You can get the book from the internet for free and master the causal relation/causal reasoning.
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by diebeatsthegmat » Fri Jul 08, 2011 10:38 am
Geva@MasterGMAT wrote:
gmatdriller wrote:Recent studies have found that teenagers who listen regularly to the heavy-metal band Suicidal Intentions are ten times as likely to attempt suicide as are other teenagers. It can therefore be concluded that the band's lyrics inspire teenagers to attempt suicide.

Which of the following, if true, most weakens the conclusion of the passage?

A: Teenagers, especially males, commit suicide at much higher rates than do people in any other age group.
B: Among teenagers who listen regularly to the band, only a small minority have attempted suicide.
C: The band's lyrics, which reflect existential despair and nihilism, attract teenagers who have considered attempting suicide.
D: One of the members of the band has himself attempted suicide on three different occasions.
E: Relatively few of the band's regular listeners are teenagers.

I wasted too much time analyzing the question vis-a-vis the interpretation of "ten times as likely to attempt suicide..." I think one should analyze the structure in a common sense, real world scenario. That is, without considering various possible ratios, percentages etc.
According to Ron Purewal, the stems on Strengthen/Weaken should be interpreted using common sense.

On the first trial I chose B. Any critique please?
for causal arguments such as this one (A and B appear together, therefore A causes B), there are 2 major ways to weaken an argument:

a. Introduce an alternative cause/explanation for B that does not involve A.
b. Subset of the above: show that it's actually the other way around: not that A causes B, but rather B causes A.

Answer choice C falls under weakener b above: it's not that the lyrics inspire teenagers to commit suicide, it's the otehr way around: the people who listen to the band are predisposed to commit suicide in the first place. In simpler words, it's not "If listen, then suicide", but rather "If suicide, then listen".
ohh so C means that actually the teenagers think of suiciding before listening to the music??? i chose B too fast....made it in 50 sec...:(
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by Geva@EconomistGMAT » Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:12 am
diebeatsthegmat wrote:
Geva@MasterGMAT wrote:
gmatdriller wrote:Recent studies have found that teenagers who listen regularly to the heavy-metal band Suicidal Intentions are ten times as likely to attempt suicide as are other teenagers. It can therefore be concluded that the band's lyrics inspire teenagers to attempt suicide.

Which of the following, if true, most weakens the conclusion of the passage?

A: Teenagers, especially males, commit suicide at much higher rates than do people in any other age group.
B: Among teenagers who listen regularly to the band, only a small minority have attempted suicide.
C: The band's lyrics, which reflect existential despair and nihilism, attract teenagers who have considered attempting suicide.
D: One of the members of the band has himself attempted suicide on three different occasions.
E: Relatively few of the band's regular listeners are teenagers.

I wasted too much time analyzing the question vis-a-vis the interpretation of "ten times as likely to attempt suicide..." I think one should analyze the structure in a common sense, real world scenario. That is, without considering various possible ratios, percentages etc.
According to Ron Purewal, the stems on Strengthen/Weaken should be interpreted using common sense.

On the first trial I chose B. Any critique please?
for causal arguments such as this one (A and B appear together, therefore A causes B), there are 2 major ways to weaken an argument:

a. Introduce an alternative cause/explanation for B that does not involve A.
b. Subset of the above: show that it's actually the other way around: not that A causes B, but rather B causes A.

Answer choice C falls under weakener b above: it's not that the lyrics inspire teenagers to commit suicide, it's the otehr way around: the people who listen to the band are predisposed to commit suicide in the first place. In simpler words, it's not "If listen, then suicide", but rather "If suicide, then listen".
ohh so C means that actually the teenagers think of suiciding before listening to the music??? i chose B too fast....made it in 50 sec...:(
Slow down, score more.
The fact that only a small minority actually commit suicide does not, by itself mean that the lyrics do not inspire those small number of suicide attempts. Besides, we have to accept the fact that suicide rates are ten times as great among the band's listeners at face value. We cannot weaken a fact - we can weaken the conclusion, or the assumption connecting the two.
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by diebeatsthegmat » Sun Jul 10, 2011 1:47 am
Geva@MasterGMAT wrote:
diebeatsthegmat wrote:
Geva@MasterGMAT wrote:
gmatdriller wrote:Recent studies have found that teenagers who listen regularly to the heavy-metal band Suicidal Intentions are ten times as likely to attempt suicide as are other teenagers. It can therefore be concluded that the band's lyrics inspire teenagers to attempt suicide.

Which of the following, if true, most weakens the conclusion of the passage?

A: Teenagers, especially males, commit suicide at much higher rates than do people in any other age group.
B: Among teenagers who listen regularly to the band, only a small minority have attempted suicide.
C: The band's lyrics, which reflect existential despair and nihilism, attract teenagers who have considered attempting suicide.
D: One of the members of the band has himself attempted suicide on three different occasions.
E: Relatively few of the band's regular listeners are teenagers.

I wasted too much time analyzing the question vis-a-vis the interpretation of "ten times as likely to attempt suicide..." I think one should analyze the structure in a common sense, real world scenario. That is, without considering various possible ratios, percentages etc.
According to Ron Purewal, the stems on Strengthen/Weaken should be interpreted using common sense.

On the first trial I chose B. Any critique please?
for causal arguments such as this one (A and B appear together, therefore A causes B), there are 2 major ways to weaken an argument:

a. Introduce an alternative cause/explanation for B that does not involve A.
b. Subset of the above: show that it's actually the other way around: not that A causes B, but rather B causes A.

Answer choice C falls under weakener b above: it's not that the lyrics inspire teenagers to commit suicide, it's the otehr way around: the people who listen to the band are predisposed to commit suicide in the first place. In simpler words, it's not "If listen, then suicide", but rather "If suicide, then listen".
ohh so C means that actually the teenagers think of suiciding before listening to the music??? i chose B too fast....made it in 50 sec...:(
Slow down, score more.
The fact that only a small minority actually commit suicide does not, by itself mean that the lyrics do not inspire those small number of suicide attempts. Besides, we have to accept the fact that suicide rates are ten times as great among the band's listeners at face value. We cannot weaken a fact - we can weaken the conclusion, or the assumption connecting the two.
i get it.. thank you a lot... its so nice of you to help us whenever we need.really appreciate it... :)
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by gmatdriller » Sat Jul 16, 2011 11:45 am
Agreed with the explanations.

The argument relies on the disparity between the two groups(LISTENERS & NON-LISTENERS)
in arriving at the conclusion:
Listening CAUSES suicide.
The individual class proportion doesn't matter: whether suicide rate within listeners is
100/1,000,000 or 10/100 is irrelevant because the argument arrived at its position based
on the distinction between the statistics of LISTENERS & NON-LISTENERS.
In that case, B is out.

D, the best choice, says lyrics ATTRACT those who have attempted suicide and NOT THAT
listening to lyrics causes suicide.
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