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tense?

by [email protected] » Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:20 pm
21. Art historians are using a process known as infrared scanning in analyzing the Mona Lisa to determine if it has been altered since completion and if Leonardo da Vinci first sketched the figure in black, as done by many artists of the time.
(A) if it has been altered since completion and if Leonardo da Vinci first sketched the figure in black, as done
(B) if it had been altered since completion and if Leonardo da Vinci first sketched the figure in black, a practice employed
(C) whether it has been altered since completion and whether Leonardo da Vinci first sketched the figure in black, a practice employed
(D) whether it was altered since completion and whether Leonardo da Vinci first sketched the figure in black, as was done
(E) whether it had been altered since completion and whether Leonardo da Vinci first sketched the figure in black, a practice done


C
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by Bidisha800 » Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:03 pm
(C)

"has been" is required to show the alterations since da vinci ... something started in past and may still in progress.
whether & whether is reqired
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by sachinkr » Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:12 pm
IMO C


Art historians are using a process..to determine X and Y.
The sentence should have both X & Y parallel

A & B. 'whether' should be used instead of 'if'
C. Correct - 'Whether' is used instead of 'if' and both X & Y are parallel
D. 'as was done' is verbose, 'was altered since completion' should be ' has been altered since completion'
E. 'had been' is incorrect
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by welcome » Fri Jan 23, 2009 2:08 am
Bidisha800,

you are right about "has been", as it is required to show the alterations since da vinci ... something started in past and may still in progress.

But it is also used to show some event hapenned in the past but its effect is still there, by this question you can make out that historians are trying to find out if some changes were made after leonardo da vinci, which are still there in the painting.

By this reason "has been " is justified.
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Re: tense?

by aroon7 » Sat Jan 24, 2009 2:17 pm
[email protected] wrote:21. Art historians are using a process known as infrared scanning in analyzing the Mona Lisa to determine if it has been altered since completion and if Leonardo da Vinci first sketched the figure in black, as done by many artists of the time.
(A) if it has been altered since completion and if Leonardo da Vinci first sketched the figure in black, as done
(B) if it had been altered since completion and if Leonardo da Vinci first sketched the figure in black, a practice employed
(C) whether it has been altered since completion and whether Leonardo da Vinci first sketched the figure in black, a practice employed
(D) whether it was altered since completion and whether Leonardo da Vinci first sketched the figure in black, as was done
(E) whether it had been altered since completion and whether Leonardo da Vinci first sketched the figure in black, a practice done


C
can i know the source of this question pls

https://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.h ... gewanted=2

please refer this page second paragraph
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by mj78ind » Wed Jun 09, 2010 1:36 am
welcome wrote:Bidisha800,

you are right about "has been", as it is required to show the alterations since da vinci ... something started in past and may still in progress.

But it is also used to show some event hapenned in the past but its effect is still there, by this question you can make out that historians are trying to find out if some changes were made after leonardo da vinci, which are still there in the painting.

By this reason "has been " is justified.
A good one indeed!

Since and within are accompanied by perfect tenses, which is another reason to go for 'has been'. The GMAT prefers simple tenses, hence if the structure is changed to "it was altered after completion" we could have gone with D also, however the use of 'since' forces us to use 'has been'.
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by paes » Wed Jun 09, 2010 1:44 am
I don't agree with C.

In C : a practice employed is modifying to 'figure in black'

which is not justified.

D seems better from this angle.
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by mj78ind » Wed Jun 09, 2010 1:53 am
paes wrote:I don't agree with C.

In C : a practice employed is modifying to 'figure in black'

which is not justified.

D seems better from this angle.
@Paes
I think 'a practice' .. modifies the act of sketching of figures in black ........ hence 'C' does not seem all that bad to me ...... may be am missing something?
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by paes » Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:08 am
mj78ind wrote:
paes wrote:I don't agree with C.

In C : a practice employed is modifying to 'figure in black'

which is not justified.

D seems better from this angle.
@Paes
I think 'a practice' .. modifies the act of sketching of figures in black ........ hence 'C' does not seem all that bad to me ...... may be am missing something?
This is the intent meaning what you are saying.
But grammatically -> a noun modifier modifies to closest Noun -> which is 'figure in black' here.
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by mj78ind » Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:19 am
paes wrote:
mj78ind wrote:
paes wrote:I don't agree with C.

In C : a practice employed is modifying to 'figure in black'

which is not justified.

D seems better from this angle.
@Paes
I think 'a practice' .. modifies the act of sketching of figures in black ........ hence 'C' does not seem all that bad to me ...... may be am missing something?
This is the intent meaning what you are saying.
But grammatically -> a noun modifier modifies to closest Noun -> which is 'figure in black' here.
@Paes

Per my understanding (Manhattan book concurs) Noun modifiers modify the noun ....... "whether Leonardo da Vinci first sketched the figure in black" -> modifier, a practice -> modified noun

Any experts who would like to comment??
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by vijay_venky » Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:23 am
To me, as stated by mj78ind, 'a practice...' seems to modify the verb 'sketch', and so is an adverbial modifier. Though it is preferable for an adverbial modifier to lie close to the verb that it modifies, it is not necessary that it should accompany the verb.


Please correct me if I'm wrong
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by paes » Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:24 am
Can anyone help for the above modifier issue ??
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by hardik.jadeja » Wed Jun 09, 2010 3:35 am
paes wrote:Can anyone help for the above modifier issue ??
As vijay_venky and mj78ind said, "a practice employed by many artists of the time. " is indeed an adverbial modifier. It is modifying the verb "sketch". And as pointed out be vijay_venky, adverbial modifiers do not need to be placed adjacent to the verb it is modifying. Adverbial modifiers are placed in such way that they don't create ambiguity in the sentence.

In the above example, option C is indeed the correct answer.
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by paes » Wed Jun 09, 2010 3:48 am
Thanks jadeja.

But grammatically it looks a noun modifier also.

So how to distinguish ( without knowing the intent of the sentence)
whether a modifier is working as a noun modifier or adverbial modifier.
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by hardik.jadeja » Wed Jun 09, 2010 3:57 am
paes wrote:Thanks jadeja.

But grammatically it looks a noun modifier also.

So how to distinguish ( without knowing the intent of the sentence)
whether a modifier is working as a noun modifier or adverbial modifier.
I don't think there is any rule that you can apply without understanding the meaning of the sentence.

In this particular example, I think it was easy to identify as 'the figure' or the color black can't be 'a practice'. It has to be 'sketching'. I suggest you read little more about adverbial modifiers and go through some more examples. I am sure you will get hold of adverbial modifier. It's not that hard.
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