Oil Leak

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by lunarpower » Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:49 pm
goelmohit2002 wrote:Moreover I guess.....there is no referent for "it" in B...

Kindly tell if there is flaw in my reasoning....
nah, "oil barge" is a legitimate antecedent for "it" in this case.

(they would allow this to stand. "san juan" is also in there, but it's both (a) completely nonsensical in context and (b) the object of a preposition. therefore, that wouldn't amount to pronoun ambiguity in the eyes of the gmat writers.)
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by goelmohit2002 » Wed Aug 26, 2009 10:49 pm
lunarpower wrote:
goelmohit2002 wrote:Moreover I guess.....there is no referent for "it" in B...

Kindly tell if there is flaw in my reasoning....
nah, "oil barge" is a legitimate antecedent for "it" in this case.

(they would allow this to stand. "san juan" is also in there, but it's both (a) completely nonsensical in context and (b) the object of a preposition. therefore, that wouldn't amount to pronoun ambiguity in the eyes of the gmat writers.)
Hi Ron,

The sentence want to say that leaking => pollution...

IMO "it" cannot refer to leaking.....so IMO "it" has wrong referent.....as you mentioned for oil barge etc...

Please correct me if there is any flaw in my reasoning.

Thanks
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by goelmohit2002 » Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:37 am
lunarpower wrote: if you say "X-ing while Y-ing", then you must be describing two separate but simultaneous actions.
Hi Ron,

Do you mean to say that in GMAT...while always mean "at the same time"....

Does while by itself does not mean "although", "whereas" ?

Many Thanks in advance
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by goelmohit2002 » Thu Oct 01, 2009 8:25 am
goelmohit2002 wrote:
lunarpower wrote:
goelmohit2002 wrote:Moreover I guess.....there is no referent for "it" in B...

Kindly tell if there is flaw in my reasoning....
nah, "oil barge" is a legitimate antecedent for "it" in this case.

(they would allow this to stand. "san juan" is also in there, but it's both (a) completely nonsensical in context and (b) the object of a preposition. therefore, that wouldn't amount to pronoun ambiguity in the eyes of the gmat writers.)
Hi Ron,

The sentence want to say that leaking => pollution...

IMO "it" cannot refer to leaking.....so IMO "it" has wrong referent.....as you mentioned for oil barge etc...

Please correct me if there is any flaw in my reasoning.

Thanks
Mohit
Hi Ron,

Can you please confirm...is this indeed correct reasoning or not ?

Many thanks
Mohit

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by lunarpower » Mon Oct 05, 2009 3:01 am
Does while by itself does not mean "although", "whereas" ?
it does, yes.
however, for "while" to have this meaning, it must subordinate an entire CLAUSE (i.e., it can't just be VERBing while VERBing).

for instance:
while most of jim's friends studied for four to six hours per day, jim only studied for half an hour per day.
here "while" has the meaning you're talking about, but it's followed by an entire clause ("most of jim's friends studied for four to six hours per day").
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by lunarpower » Mon Oct 05, 2009 3:06 am
goelmohit2002 wrote:
lunarpower wrote:
goelmohit2002 wrote:Moreover I guess.....there is no referent for "it" in B...

Kindly tell if there is flaw in my reasoning....
nah, "oil barge" is a legitimate antecedent for "it" in this case.

(they would allow this to stand. "san juan" is also in there, but it's both (a) completely nonsensical in context and (b) the object of a preposition. therefore, that wouldn't amount to pronoun ambiguity in the eyes of the gmat writers.)
Hi Ron,

The sentence want to say that leaking => pollution...

IMO "it" cannot refer to leaking.....so IMO "it" has wrong referent.....as you mentioned for oil barge etc...

Please correct me if there is any flaw in my reasoning.

Thanks
Mohit
this is actually a good point. if you think VERY LITERALLY and VERY PRECISELY (i.e., the only way that you're ever supposed to think on this exam), then you'll realize that it's not the oil barge itself that caused the pollution; it was the leaking of oil from that barge.

again, the COMMA + -ING construction is absolutely perfect here. when something is the direct consequence of an action, that's the perfect construction to use.

--

my comment above was a comment about grammar, not context. grammatically, "oil barge" is a legitimate antecedent for "it". however, as mohit points out, it's not the right one in context.
Ron has been teaching various standardized tests for 20 years.

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by goelmohit2002 » Mon Oct 05, 2009 4:57 am
lunarpower wrote:
Does while by itself does not mean "although", "whereas" ?
it does, yes.
however, for "while" to have this meaning, it must subordinate an entire CLAUSE (i.e., it can't just be VERBing while VERBing).

for instance:
while most of jim's friends studied for four to six hours per day, jim only studied for half an hour per day.
here "while" has the meaning you're talking about, but it's followed by an entire clause ("most of jim's friends studied for four to six hours per day").
Thanks Ron !!!

But in one of the post you told that

Even though should always follow complete clause.

But Although can follow phrase too....

Can you please tell why if while means "although"...the same rule does not apply to while too ?

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by lunarpower » Sat Oct 10, 2009 2:58 pm
goelmohit2002 wrote:Can you please tell why if while means "although"...the same rule does not apply to while too ?
you can't expect two words to follow exactly the same idiomatic conventions, just because the two words have similar meanings.

unfortunately, you have to learn the idiomatic convenitions for each word individually.
incidentally, this is the only area in which native speakers of english have a clear advantage, because we've seen and heard those idiomatic usages (mostly correctly) for our entire lives.
(on some areas, such as pronouns and modifiers - areas that are commonly misused in spoken language - there's actually a certain degree of advantage conferred on non-native speakers.)

--

here's another example:

"ask" and "request" are very similar words.

however, they don't follow the same idioms:
you can write ask PERSON to VERB, but you CANNOT write request PERSON to VERB.
you can write ask for NOUN, but you can't write request for NOUN.
etc.

sorry. i wish there weren't so many idioms, but that's the way it is.
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by bvn » Thu Sep 23, 2010 10:19 pm
lunarpower wrote:
goelmohit2002 wrote: "ask" and "request" are very similar words.

however, they don't follow the same idioms:
you can write ask PERSON to VERB, but you CANNOT write request PERSON to VERB.
you can write ask for NOUN, but you can't write request for NOUN.
etc.

sorry. i wish there weren't so many idioms, but that's the way it is.
Hi Ron, as I checked up in Longman Dictionary of Contemporary English 5th Edition, It do have Request sb to do sth.

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by lunarpower » Thu Sep 23, 2010 11:04 pm
bvn wrote:Hi Ron, as I checked up in Longman Dictionary of Contemporary English 5th Edition, It do have Request sb to do sth.
hmm.
the longman dictionary isn't the most reliable source in the world. for instance, on that same page (if you look up "request"), it gives the following as one of its examples:
*The prosecution has requested that all charges against Hodgkins are dropped

this is actually 100% incorrect; in this instance, we have to use the command subjunctive:
The prosecution has requested that all charges against Hodgkins be dropped.

i've also noticed a few other sloppy/incorrect examples in the same source. it's not totally worthless, but it's also not consistently reliable.

i stand by my assertion that "request PERSON to do something" is incorrect. (i'm open to official counterevidence -- i.e., please let me know if you find a counterexample in GMATPREP or OG's.)
Ron has been teaching various standardized tests for 20 years.

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by bvn » Fri Sep 24, 2010 12:03 am
lunarpower wrote: hmm.
the longman dictionary isn't the most reliable source in the world. for instance, on that same page (if you look up "request"), it gives the following as one of its examples:
*The prosecution has requested that all charges against Hodgkins are dropped

this is actually 100% incorrect; in this instance, we have to use the command subjunctive:
The prosecution has requested that all charges against Hodgkins be dropped.

i've also noticed a few other sloppy/incorrect examples in the same source. it's not totally worthless, but it's also not consistently reliable.

i stand by my assertion that "request PERSON to do something" is incorrect. (i'm open to official counterevidence -- i.e., please let me know if you find a counterexample in GMATPREP or OG's.)
Thank you Ron for point out the incorrect example.

However, as I checked in Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary 8th Edition, It also have Request sb to do sth.

I haven't seen the counter example on GMATPREP or OG yet.

By the way, which dictionary do you think the best?

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by CaptainM » Sun Sep 26, 2010 11:58 am
lunarpower wrote:
if you write "...with X VERBing", the implication is that this is happening at the same time as the verb in the main clause.

analogy:
roy ran down the hallway, with his arms flapping frantically.
the implication is that roy's arms are flapping frantically AS he runs down the hallway.

by the same reasoning, the above choice (b) asserts that the oil was already leaking in the ocean AS the barge ran aground. this clearly isn't the case; the two events actually occurred in sequence, and the one was the consequence of the other.

--
.
Ron
Gr8 explanation..loved it!! :)
One query:
I understood that the order("ran aground"..."leaking") is sequential and not simultaneous, but I fail to understand why the same two actions in the right option are in same tense("ran aground"..."leaked")?So how do we decide it is sequential and not simultaneous here?
"In January 1994 an oil barge ran aground off the coast of San Juan, Puerto Rico,and its cargo of 750,000 gallons leaked into the ocean,..."

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by mundasingh123 » Sun Sep 26, 2010 1:19 pm
lunarpower wrote:
hariharakarthi wrote:B. with its cargo of 750000 gallons leaking into the ocean, and it polluted

in January 1994 an oil barge ran aground off the coast of San Juan, Puerto Rico, with its cargo of 750000 gallons leaking into the ocean, and it polluted
the city's beaches.

Is it a pronoun error?
Can you explain what is wrong with B?

Regards,
hhk
if you write "...with X VERBing", the implication is that this is happening at the same time as the verb in the main clause.

analogy:
roy ran down the hallway, with his arms flapping frantically.
the implication is that roy's arms are flapping frantically AS he runs down the hallway.

by the same reasoning, the above choice (b) asserts that the oil was already leaking in the ocean AS the barge ran aground. this clearly isn't the case; the two events actually occurred in sequence, and the one was the consequence of the other.

--

the other problem with that choice is "...and it polluted..."

you don't use "and" in this sense unless the two items you're describing are essentially independent of each other.
for instance, if i said the following:
there was lots of traffic on the freeway and i was late to work.
...then i'm implying, strangely enough, that the traffic had nothing to do with my being late. (perhaps i'm just listing two reasons why it was A Bad Day.)

on the other hand, you could salvage the construction with a connector word that implies causation, such as "so" or "thus". for instance, either of the following would convey the intended meaning accurately in the aforementioned case:
there was lots of traffic on the freeway and i was thus late to work.
there was lots of traffic on the freeway and so i was late to work.
these are both ok.
however, choice (b) doesn't use such a word; it merely uses "and" by itself, which, for the reasons mentioned above, is wrong.
But answer choice C suggests that running aground and leaking take place at the same time

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by lunarpower » Wed Jun 08, 2011 3:04 am
CaptainM wrote:Ron
Gr8 explanation..loved it!! :)
One query:
I understood that the order("ran aground"..."leaking") is sequential and not simultaneous, but I fail to understand why the same two actions in the right option are in same tense("ran aground"..."leaked")?So how do we decide it is sequential and not simultaneous here?
"In January 1994 an oil barge ran aground off the coast of San Juan, Puerto Rico,and its cargo of 750,000 gallons leaked into the ocean,..."
https://www.beatthegmat.com/which-usage- ... tml#183920

comma + ing should be either
(1) simultaneous with AND subordinate to, or
(2) a direct and inevitable consequence of,
the action in the main clause.

neither of these is true for these first 2 actions -- they are a sequence of equal-priority events, so they are placed in parallel.

note that "polluting" is a DIRECT AND INEVITABLE consequence of "leaked"; hence the modifier structure in that part.
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by startgmat » Sun Jul 08, 2012 12:04 am
Hope u guys don't mind for opening this thread after a long time ...
@Ron I have one doubt..

In option C
In January 1994 an oil barge ran aground off the coast of San Juan, Puerto Rico,
and its cargo of 750,000 gallons leaked into the ocean, polluting
the city's beaches.

we are using 'AND' to separate two consequential events...
is it correct here..
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