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HAD + Simple Past

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HAD + Simple Past

by mmslf75 » Mon Aug 24, 2009 4:31 am
Guys i am confused with usage of Past Perfect tense.

Look at this sentence.
The train had departed by the time we arrived at the station
This sentence clearly shows that HAD + Past Participle = Past Perfect and ARRIVED = Simple Past.

However, look at this sentence...

Before her sixth birthday, Jane had never been to the zoo.

Here I fail to recognize such a pattern ?

Is it because of the word "BEFORE" that quietly signifies SIMPLE PAST...

Pls explain any1 pls
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by capnx » Mon Aug 24, 2009 5:10 am
when you have adj/adv that can indicate a time period that is before a specific time in the past, ie: after, before, since, prior, until... pay special attention because they signal two different time periods with one specifically ocurring before another; and if the reference time period is in the past tense (either in the main clause or modifying clause), the period that's before the past must be in past perfect.

We all went out to celebrate after she had completed the race.
Before he arrived, we had already finished the project.

So as long as the meaning requires that one action occurs before another that clearly happend in the past, use past perfect
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by mmslf75 » Mon Aug 24, 2009 10:40 am
capnx wrote:when you have adj/adv that can indicate a time period that is before a specific time in the past, ie: after, before, since, prior, until... pay special attention because they signal two different time periods with one specifically ocurring before another; and if the reference time period is in the past tense (either in the main clause or modifying clause), the period that's before the past must be in past perfect.

We all went out to celebrate after she had completed the race.
Before he arrived, we had already finished the project.

Hi Capnx ..

Thanks

But u too are using ARRIVED which is SIMPLE PAST...
My query is can we use HAD in a sentence (of course with a participle ) withOUT a simple past (as shown in jane example above )..

Before he arrived, we had already finished the project.

So as long as the meaning requires that one action occurs before another that clearly happend in the past, use past perfect
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by mmslf75 » Tue Aug 25, 2009 2:49 am
Hi Capnx ..

Thanks

But u too are using ARRIVED which is SIMPLE PAST...
My query is can we use HAD in a sentence (of course with a participle ) withOUT a simple past (as shown in jane example above )..
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by Stacey Koprince » Thu Aug 27, 2009 7:50 am
Received a PM asking me to respond.

The more typical setup is two have a simple past verb and a past perfect verb. However, you don't absolutely have to have the simple past verb as long as you have something in the sentence (a date, a time marker of some kind) that indicates there were two events that occurred at different times in the past. So the "Jane" sentence is find, because it does give us a time marker - "before her sixth birthday."
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by mmslf75 » Fri Aug 28, 2009 2:43 am
Hi Stacey

Thanks get the point now...
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