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- Bara
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A new MBA networking site, https://www.networkingmba.com, recently posed the following question:
If you're not aware, the GRE (Graduate Record Exam) is being accepted by more and more business schools as a gatekeeper for their programs.
Schools such as Harvard Business School, Wharton School and many other top schools across US are accepting this validation method as an alternative to the traditional GMAT (Graduate in Management Admission Test).
According to Business Week this "It's part of a move by the school to attract a broader applicant pool, including dual-degree students, younger applicants, and international applicants from far-flung countries without GMAT access."
It would be great to know the opinion of people with different backgrounds and in different situations.
To which we, TPNY, were invited to respond. I thought that some folks here would be interested in thinking about this issue....thus I'm reposting, since i didn't find much on BTG that addressed this recently.
My response:
I've worked with these tests for about 17 years. The GRE and GMAT test different ways of thinking through their question-types. Starting from our philosophy that standardized tests provide opportunities for schools to see how someone thinks like a 'doctor,' 'lawyer,' and 'business person,' I'm not entirely clear how a business school can use a GRE score, but can understand, somewhat, how some graduate school programs can accept the GMAT for their graduate school programs. That said, it could be that these top schools accept these alternative scores are making a statement more about the roles and validity that 'tests' have in the application process itself than in the actual score, or material being tested.
We all know that tests measure as much about content as about 'taking' tests - - anxiety, focus and other pressures affect scores so they aren't always really a fully accurate measure of how smart or successful a person will be, particularly in business or graduate school. (The MCAT and LSAT are another case, altogether). As such, schools might be tiring of amazing candidates with not so stellar scores. Accepting less-stressful tests, like the GRE (arguably) might be leveling the playing field. Still, the GRE is no picnic, and for many, test-anxiety and low confidence can get in the way of a solid score. perhaps it's only a matter of time that they'll do away with all standardized admittance tests - - as is the case of a handful of colleges for the SATs/ACTs...or at least, they will make them optional.
The quick answer about the GRE vs. the GMAT is that the GRE is easier than the GMAT. The math is less intense, the verbal mostly based on vocabulary, and the kind of analytical/critical thinking only measured by the essays. That said, it isn't the easiest of tests, but it is very coachable, and with the right strategy and memorization, most people can improve dramatically, with a score that doesn't reflect their intellect or abilities in grad programs - - just how well they perform on the test.
The GRE is the SAT on steroids. It tests similar math and verbal skills, however, some of it's testing doesn't particularly highlight, in as a straightforward way, how someone thinks out of the box or takes calculated risks (data sufficiency.) Some may argue that the critical reasoning on the GMAT, a section that was removed from the GRE several years ago, is analgous to the writing portion of the GRE, but those questions are similar to the GMAT's essays, so it seems schools would lose significant perspective and data on how a person reasons and thinks critically. The GRE is more straight forward and is more akin to an 'entrance' exam. A school or program can compare scores of the applicants, to make sure they've reached a defined level, or total, for acceptance. For example, for my first grad degree from U-Michigan, they wouldn't pass on our material to the departments for review, acceptance or funding unless we scored an average of one score, say, 700 in each section (then there were 3 sections.)
The GMAT, on the other hand, is very tricky. Short cuts and strategy are dependent on certain ways of thinking rather than knowledge. ESL students can actually do well on the GMAT sentence corrections, if they follow strict guide lines for how to answer, even though the questions test grammar. For native English speakers, trouble occurs on this verbal section when someone 'knows' English, but can't really tell the difference between spoken and written English. It isn't enough for something to 'sound' right. With the GRE's analogies, antonyms and sentence completion questions, someone can USE prior experience with languages other than English to figure out what words mean (mostly latin languages), but on the GMAT, that isn't an option. It's all rules and nuances of grammar.
Some problem solving, data sufficiency and logic on the GMAT, however, force students to take calculated risks and think out of the box. Timing becomes more of an issue, in our experience, as well.The GMAT test is more predictable, which makes this section easier to coach through strategy and teaching 'how' to think like a business person. This kind of thinking, the person will need through school and their professional life.
The bottom line for test takers is to take diagnostics to see what test they score better on, then prepare accordingly.
Regardless of the test, a student needs to master content, understand the test-writer's voice and intention, utilize best strategy and go in fully confident with the task at hand. Most companies will prepare students for some of the content mastery and strategy, but only go so far. As far as I know, my company, TPNY is the only one to help students in all areas, particularly since most students suffer some form of anxiety and self esteem issues when it comes to taking these tests.
Cheers!
If you're not aware, the GRE (Graduate Record Exam) is being accepted by more and more business schools as a gatekeeper for their programs.
Schools such as Harvard Business School, Wharton School and many other top schools across US are accepting this validation method as an alternative to the traditional GMAT (Graduate in Management Admission Test).
According to Business Week this "It's part of a move by the school to attract a broader applicant pool, including dual-degree students, younger applicants, and international applicants from far-flung countries without GMAT access."
It would be great to know the opinion of people with different backgrounds and in different situations.
To which we, TPNY, were invited to respond. I thought that some folks here would be interested in thinking about this issue....thus I'm reposting, since i didn't find much on BTG that addressed this recently.
My response:
I've worked with these tests for about 17 years. The GRE and GMAT test different ways of thinking through their question-types. Starting from our philosophy that standardized tests provide opportunities for schools to see how someone thinks like a 'doctor,' 'lawyer,' and 'business person,' I'm not entirely clear how a business school can use a GRE score, but can understand, somewhat, how some graduate school programs can accept the GMAT for their graduate school programs. That said, it could be that these top schools accept these alternative scores are making a statement more about the roles and validity that 'tests' have in the application process itself than in the actual score, or material being tested.
We all know that tests measure as much about content as about 'taking' tests - - anxiety, focus and other pressures affect scores so they aren't always really a fully accurate measure of how smart or successful a person will be, particularly in business or graduate school. (The MCAT and LSAT are another case, altogether). As such, schools might be tiring of amazing candidates with not so stellar scores. Accepting less-stressful tests, like the GRE (arguably) might be leveling the playing field. Still, the GRE is no picnic, and for many, test-anxiety and low confidence can get in the way of a solid score. perhaps it's only a matter of time that they'll do away with all standardized admittance tests - - as is the case of a handful of colleges for the SATs/ACTs...or at least, they will make them optional.
The quick answer about the GRE vs. the GMAT is that the GRE is easier than the GMAT. The math is less intense, the verbal mostly based on vocabulary, and the kind of analytical/critical thinking only measured by the essays. That said, it isn't the easiest of tests, but it is very coachable, and with the right strategy and memorization, most people can improve dramatically, with a score that doesn't reflect their intellect or abilities in grad programs - - just how well they perform on the test.
The GRE is the SAT on steroids. It tests similar math and verbal skills, however, some of it's testing doesn't particularly highlight, in as a straightforward way, how someone thinks out of the box or takes calculated risks (data sufficiency.) Some may argue that the critical reasoning on the GMAT, a section that was removed from the GRE several years ago, is analgous to the writing portion of the GRE, but those questions are similar to the GMAT's essays, so it seems schools would lose significant perspective and data on how a person reasons and thinks critically. The GRE is more straight forward and is more akin to an 'entrance' exam. A school or program can compare scores of the applicants, to make sure they've reached a defined level, or total, for acceptance. For example, for my first grad degree from U-Michigan, they wouldn't pass on our material to the departments for review, acceptance or funding unless we scored an average of one score, say, 700 in each section (then there were 3 sections.)
The GMAT, on the other hand, is very tricky. Short cuts and strategy are dependent on certain ways of thinking rather than knowledge. ESL students can actually do well on the GMAT sentence corrections, if they follow strict guide lines for how to answer, even though the questions test grammar. For native English speakers, trouble occurs on this verbal section when someone 'knows' English, but can't really tell the difference between spoken and written English. It isn't enough for something to 'sound' right. With the GRE's analogies, antonyms and sentence completion questions, someone can USE prior experience with languages other than English to figure out what words mean (mostly latin languages), but on the GMAT, that isn't an option. It's all rules and nuances of grammar.
Some problem solving, data sufficiency and logic on the GMAT, however, force students to take calculated risks and think out of the box. Timing becomes more of an issue, in our experience, as well.The GMAT test is more predictable, which makes this section easier to coach through strategy and teaching 'how' to think like a business person. This kind of thinking, the person will need through school and their professional life.
The bottom line for test takers is to take diagnostics to see what test they score better on, then prepare accordingly.
Regardless of the test, a student needs to master content, understand the test-writer's voice and intention, utilize best strategy and go in fully confident with the task at hand. Most companies will prepare students for some of the content mastery and strategy, but only go so far. As far as I know, my company, TPNY is the only one to help students in all areas, particularly since most students suffer some form of anxiety and self esteem issues when it comes to taking these tests.
Cheers!
Bara Sapir, MA, CHt, CNLP
Founder/CEO City Test Prep
Maximize your Score, Minimize your Stress!
GMAT Badass and Test Anxiety Relief Expert
SPEEDREADING: https://citytestprep.com/mindflow-workshops/
ANXIETY RELIEF: https://citytestprep.com/mindfulness-therapy/
BOOK: https://tinyurl.com/TPNYSC
TV: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McA4aqCNS-c
Founder/CEO City Test Prep
Maximize your Score, Minimize your Stress!
GMAT Badass and Test Anxiety Relief Expert
SPEEDREADING: https://citytestprep.com/mindflow-workshops/
ANXIETY RELIEF: https://citytestprep.com/mindfulness-therapy/
BOOK: https://tinyurl.com/TPNYSC
TV: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McA4aqCNS-c












